Don’t You Value our Relationship?

VaCAP Board

VaCAP Board

Coalition of Appraisers in Virginia at Virginia Coalition of Appraiser Professionals
Coalition of individual appraisers working together to unite, promote and protect the collective interests of all appraisal professionals in Virginia; to promote needed changes in laws, rules, regulations, policies and standards affecting all appraisers in Virginia; to observe and report the actions of regulatory, legislative, oversight, and standards-setting entities of the Commonwealth.
VaCAP Board

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Appraiser-Client Relationship - Imagecredit Flickr - Dennis HillRelationships, we all have them.  And despite the efforts of Dodd Frank to destroy them, we have somehow managed to keep them. A big bank that I had a great relationship dropped me because their portal system decided there were too many appraisers last year and left me hanging. No orders for a year. Now they’re busy and want me to do appraisals. Great! But between the portal fees, underwriting charges, title surpluses, software charges, destination charges, taxes, etc. the fee works out to be substantially lower than most work I have. They asked me “don’t you value our relationship?”. I replied where were you the past year? I do value the relationship, you just have to pay a reasonable and customary fee like everyone else.

VACAP’s Don Clark had a nice article in Appraisal Buzz. Woody Fincham, SRA is speaking at the Valuation Expo in Baltimore at the end of the month.  And Coester VMS is trying save face (we shall see how it plays out).

Valuation Expo is in Baltimore on June 29, 30 and July 1.  If you go, give me your take on things.

The Appraisal Institute will have its National Conference at the end of July in Dallas. These are always extremely educational.

Dr. Randy Bell MAI, is speaking at the VAAO event in Charlottesville on July 15-17.  They are offering a 7 USPAP class as well.

The new FHA guidelines will soon take affect. As appraisers our responsibility as home inspectors is going to increase significantly. No more head and shoulder inspection of the crawl space. It states the appraiser must perform a full inspection. Read the 449 pages and let me know what you think.

VaCAP Board

VaCAP Board

Coalition of individual appraisers working together to unite, promote and protect the collective interests of all appraisal professionals in Virginia; to promote needed changes in laws, rules, regulations, policies and standards affecting all appraisers in Virginia; to observe and report the actions of regulatory, legislative, oversight, and standards-setting entities of the Commonwealth.

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15 Responses

  1. Koma says:

    Thanks for the post. I like to hear everybody’s opinion. But man it’s like they’re trying to cram that word “Customary and Reasonable Fee” down our throats! Don’t care what every other bottom feeder is taking (you know who you are, 50% less for a typical full) my fee is what I set it to be and if my clients didn’t like it they won’t be sending me any work.They do, so they must like the work I’m doing and agree to my fee. So much so I’m turning work away. What if it’s determined that that 50% off for a full is what is a customary and reasonable fee are you planning on doing the work. More power to you because I’m not! Stand up for what your worth!

    Koma

    I know what fee’s are in my area because I have friends call around to see what they are.

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  2. bubba jay bubba jay says:

    things have gotten so bad that with the low fees, the pressure of 48 turn around times, all the added requirements, extra liability, etc., appraisers i have talked to, including myself, are feeling completely exhausted and have finally had enough of it all. most have quit, are quitting, or are planning on quitting. (recent poll statistics and 50,000 already lost according to past articles).

    i used to value relationships with clients, but i just flat-out dont care anymore. in fact yesterday, i was very nasty with a client over the phone, because they were trying again to send me a 1004 order for $285. i have decided that being nice doesnt pay the bills anymore. i told them what my fees were, and if they didnt like them to take me off their list and they can KMA.

    are appraisers finally at a total breaking point? i dont know, but it feels like it, at least for me anyway. i envy the ones who had enough brains to call it quits a long time ago. but hey, its never too late.

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    • Wayne says:

      The more comments I read from my fellow appraisers the more thankful I am. It is not my intention to put on a radio show, write books or be an appraisal coach. I do not claim to have the answers. My office consists of myself and one family member. It cannot get much smaller than that. We are happy in our work! The first consideration that is made when a new order comes to our office is who is the client? We do NOT accept any work from any AMC. We do not accept any work from any mortgage broker or huge banks like BofA or Chase. Our major clients are small and regional banks, credit unions and individuals. I do about four or five VA assignments each year at the dictated $400. fee and the rest of our appraisals begin at $450.

      We use a type of rating for our clients. If they are a bit slow to pay (over 30 days) that is a negative. If they constantly require status checks, that is a negative. If they require numerous stips, they go near the bottom of the list. If an assignment is marked “RUSH” that is declined immediately. Our typical turn time is between two and four weeks. We have decided to drop all FHA assignments. We accept all that we can reasonably take and turn down the rest. Oh, we do not train our competition.

      Yes, I know that we are very lucky. However we did work hard building up the type of client base that we wanted. It will not fall into your lap overnight. If we can do this, any other appraiser can do it also! We do not ask any client what they will pay. We tell them what our fee for the assignment will be. We do not allow them to dictate when we will contact the homeowner or what we will wear. Some clients will not work with appraisers who are “difficult” like us. What a shame! If you do not run your own business, who will?

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      • Koma says:

        If you do not run your own business, who will? 

        What a great statement! That’s what I keep preaching!

        Thanks Wayne,

        Koma

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      • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

        “If you do not run your own business, who will?”

        I was under the impression that the banking lobby called all the shots.  They certainly have been since 2009.

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        • Wayne says:

          RA, I am not trying to be disagreeable but in my opinion the banking lobby does not call all of the shots. First of all, there are appraisals for many uses other than mortgage lending. Second, many appraisers believe that they MUST bend over and obey any command given to them by any client. Each of us have our own opinion as to how a business should be operated. I have one appraiser buddy that works almost exclusively for AMCs. He told me a few weeks ago that he had referred 17 assignments (not AMC) the previous month to another appraiser friend of ours in the adjoining county. He was asking me if I covered that area.  The more people who retire or drop out of this business, the better it is for the rest of us. Come on AMCs and FHA, run a few more out! ha ha!

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          • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

            Who do you think was behind HVCC? Andrew Cuomo was simply their “tool” of choice for pulling it off. Banks threw millions towards his campaign war chest in exchange for the billions that banks would reap from their appraisal fee grab via their AMC subsidiaries.

            Nothing else comes close to the impact that HVCC aka Dudd Frank aka AIR had on appraisers.

            Overnight, banks were able to essentially shut down their mortgage broker competitors. Indeed, thousands were forced out of business entirely.

            Banks were able to replenish their gambling accounts (remember those mortgage backed security bets?) They’ve made well over a billion dollars by doing nothing more than setting up an extortion racket with appraisers (Pay 50% to Play) each month.

            Then made out in many other areas as well but that should jog your memory.

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          • Baggins Baggins says:

            Double dare you to try and explain to a punch in punch out assignment clerk, why you’re not just writing reports as quick and as cheap as possible to keep the originators happy.  Per retired comments below;  Yep, the ‘management rule’ needs updated to mention that if you discount and cost savings are not returned to the borrowing consumer, you have indeed provided a thing of value to be the preferred selectee.  But absent of clear separated disclosure of amc and appraisers fees, such an approach is logistically impossible because amc’s cannot be audited for c&r compliance, and additionally because appraisers fees are no longer tied directly to each borrower, but instead are often part of a national assignment budget with distributors.  I’ll continue to be mystified why lenders would put value security of their customers lower in the prioritization scale, than getting cheaper and quicker appraisal services.  Even many supposed direct distributors whom use mercury and such will re assign over a dollar and a day.  Many of them operate just like an amc, in that they have multiple lending clients whom use the direct distribution service and they therefore put their clients patronage higher in priority than appraiser independence issues.  Centralized distribution did more harm than it ever did good for this industry.  What’s up with the mere 5 minute edit window on the blogs?  Bring back the longer edit window!…..

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          • Wayne says:

            RA, I am very familiar with HVCC and other issues that have been forced on the appraisal industry within the past few decades. The most recent study concerning C&R conducted by the State of Texas indicated that 1/4 of the TX appraisers did not accept assignments from AMCs. Bankers and Cuomo can shout from the highest mountain but if appraisers refused to work for AMCs….there would be no AMCs. Appraisers as a group have never joined together to do anything that I am aware of. Many pay dues to useless organizations that promote silly designations to inflate the egos of elite members. These are just another form of parasite on the appraisal industry. Like I have previously said, you have to run your own business in this occupation!

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    • bubba jay bubba jay says:

      quick update – that AMC called me back! they sent me an order at MY PRICES.

      grow “a pair” people and DO IT. i challenge everyone to grow a brain and find a moment of clarity. finally realize everything that we do, and all we have on our plates right now. only then will you will discover that you are worth a lot more than you think you are. quit going broke.

      if you are unable do that, well, there’s always Amway. HA!

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      • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

        Don’t knock multi-level marketing businesses.  They are light years ahead of the appraisal industry IF you choose a good one.  Try leveraging other people’s time free of charge in the appraisal business.  I don’t know of many people who work for you for free elsewhere…then again, appraisers are willing to work for $5 per hour these days.

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        • bubba jay bubba jay says:

          sorry RA, but i earned the right to knock MLM’s after trying a few of them, including Amway, for about 5 years. wasnt a fit good for me. got tired of working my butt off for nothing and being treated like dirt.

          weird. sounds awfully familiar . . . . .

           

          the bleeding continues . . . . .

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          • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

            I agree; if you’ve tried it you’ve earned the right.  It’s certainly not for everyone but you have to admit that it does work and work well for others.  I’ve never found a product or service that inspired me enough to engage other than prepaid legal services so I’ve decided to launch my own company with a service that I truly believe in.  I am NOT implying that you weren’t passionate about what you were selling but my theory on how to succeed in business has always been short and sweet.  Get into something that you are PASSIONATE about.  80 hour work weeks are nothing when you feel that way about how you’re spending your time.  When you’re passionate about something work becomes play and you increase your odds of success 100 fold.

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  3. Baggins Baggins says:

    Email 1; New standards. Another 500 page read. No mention of compliance with other regulatory standards, except for ones that particular entity chooses to focus on. No standard minimum, no enforcement of unearned fee rules, no clarification on fee splitting, despite existing junk fee rules. No clarification that an appraiser should receive a copy of an inspectors report, and no mention of quality standards for home inspectors themselves. Email 2; Save money, save time, make more money – Outsource your appraisal duties to god knows who, with a simple subscription to our data typing and data sharing services. Email 3; Stips. Reviewer claims this and that and that assumptions are not allowed per USPAP. Wow, I guess the 40 yr experienced ethics instructor was wrong. I should probably listen to the desk clerk instead I guess, if I want to keep earning. Email 4; amc seeking to play me against all the other appraisers, and ask for my ‘best fee and tat’. “My best fee and tat? You don’t say….” $800 and 3 weeks. I think they meant to ask for my worst fee and tat, so I could compete in the $400 and 4 day range. Email 5; Direct assignment order. Well, finally we’re cooking with gas again. I put the rest of those guys on vacation, because it’s not my duty or responsibility to save anyone a dollar or a day. I’m much too busy competing with time challenges to keep up with necessary regulatory compliance issues to even consider lining up like a duck at a target practice with outsourced duties, or to play the court jester and try to compete for laughs with the lowest fee and turn time. One feels bad for appraisers whom are the sole family income provider, or are buried in debt, or whom are tied to an endless string of monthly payment responsibilities for all the little bells and whistles. No wonder they have to compete by fees. Running fast and loose with money management always puts a person in the weaker negotiation position, regardless of their career path. Can we start assigning appraisals based on appraisers credit scores? I mean, if all these other efforts have failed, lets start focusing on what matters; The ability to be a sound money manager, and be trusted with other peoples vital credit and lending management reports and decisions. If you can’t manage your own program, you should not be trusted to manage other peoples programs. Can you imagine a fitness trainer showing up to your door, loaded with accreditation, and weighing 400 lbs? That’s how an appraiser feels when a middle management distributor trusted with increasing appraisal reliability calls like a telemarketer and tries to drive the appraisers fee and turn time down.

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Don’t You Value our Relationship?

by VaCAP Board time to read: 1 min
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