Appraisers Are Ghosting AMCs?
From The Chrisman Commentary (Rob is a mortgage broker but an essential source of information on the mortgage industry). You can subscribe here.
From Appraisals are near the top of any list of current lender and borrower complaints about the processing of mortgages.
This week I received this note from Mike Simmons, Co-President of AXIS AMC. “I’ve heard of something overhanging the appraisal industry. Namely, that appraisers are ghosting (abandoning) orders and are beyond accountability. Part of my responsibility at AXIS Appraisal Management Solutions is to attend lender conferences and talk about the appraisal industry, and addressing difficult topics centered around our industry. Despite the enjoyment of being together again in person, this year the energy at all the conferences felt more negative than usual. The voices were louder, and different. Not so much over new issues, because the issues really aren’t new, but there’s more anger now. And some of us in our industry share that frustration…
“I want to clarify something: while the issue causing most of the heartburn only involves a small percentage of appraisers, it’s spreading and eroding the public’s trust in all appraisers. The goal is to find ways to change the behavior of those few outliers that are causing all the noise.
“What some Regulators didn’t recognize, is that telling an AMC that it’s their choice not to engage an appraiser who has abandoned an order, or failed to deliver a report anywhere near an agreed upon timeline and without explanation, doesn’t constitute a solution. That policy will have no impact on that same appraiser getting orders from any of 100, or 200, or 300 other AMCs in that State and repeating that same behavior. Ok, so what. The ‘what’ is that failing to meet a contractual deadline, in a worst case, can cause a borrower (and Real Estate Agent & Mortgage Lender) to lose a purchase transaction.
I find it interesting that many AMCs are complaining about appraisers disappearing from assignments. They need to revisit their business relationship with appraisers. In my own observations, they often take a week to call around to get the lowest bid. What kind of business relationship does that establish with the appraiser?
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Jonathan, you are correct in stating these AMC’s need to take a hard look in the mirror because I’m tired of hearing it’s our fault… “it’s only a small % of appraisers”
;-);-)
Once in awhile i will veer off course and take an AMC order because it was close to another one I was doing for a regular client. I can remember at least 2 times after 3 rounds of nonsensical questions I just said I am not doing this anymore. It does not make financial sense to keep going. I abandoned the order and the fee. Sometimes I think they do this to so they can keep all the money. I have been appraising for 25 years.
Ignoring a “bid” request is one thing. We do that 20 times a day. Maintain your integrity. If you take the order finish it in the timeline YOU agreed to.
Wow! How about I bid on an order with a fee and due date then they come back to me 7 business days later and say ok lets move forward with your purposed bid. I tell them not gonna happen. Is that my fault? In what reality do they live in? That was over 30 orders ago and I’m already booked out 20 days from your reply date. Or how about I contacted you 5 business days ago updating you that I could not gain entry because the electronic lock on the front door won’t let me into the vacant property and the agent is like “that’s the only way to get in and I don’t have a key to any of the other 4 doors”. Also, the owners live out of state. I could keep going but I’m busy.
When I bid an order I tell them it’s good for six hours.
I agree, but when you’re knee deep in and they AMC Lender, agent whatever start with the stupid requests, and constant meddling, & nagging how about 6 emails a day and 4 calls telling me the order is overdue, when I have turned it in and their system is down or they forgot to check the system? Just sayin sick of the babysitting responsibilities y’all, time to tell them & I do!
It is submitted that Appraisers are too varied in their Opinions of Value as many have different ways of doing their work, so too are the business processes of the hundreds of different AMCs. In my Opinion, it is the Lenders fault to subscribe to a company that does not provide the best service possible, not just how much money can they save. The relationship between the AMC and the Appraiser is tenuous at best and hostile at worst. I work with many AMC’s that treat me with respect and we communicate on all orders. Since there is more than one party involved, it is up to us as professionals to uphold our end of the process. Lenders want to complain, they need to point the finger at themselves.IMO
Many of the AMCs are nothing more than pimps. I don’t feel sorry for them in the least.
At least the pimps want their contractors to do well.
Bwahahahahaha
Perhaps AMC’s should stop shopping for fast and cheap and focus on who is good and they will attract better talent. In many of these cases the AMC has caused their own issue by treating the appraiser in a negative light from the start.
Bidding Opportunities have windows open 24-48 hrs waiting for the lowest bid. Meanwhile the potential order says RUSH! Feel for the borrower who’s waiting for an appraisal
I have rush bid requests that sit for 3 days and then they approve and do not adjust for the time they wasted waiting for a bid $5 cheaper.
Yep, 24/7 and 365
The AMC “business Model” is at its core, a TEMP Agency that redacts half or more of the service fee. That’s collusion defined between them and the Mortgage Brokers and Banks.
Bingo.
What is your fee and turn time? What was the consumer charged for my service?
RICO. Confirmed via TRID.
Truth…completely useless tools
About 50% of my work is private. I work for 3 AMC’s that I feel respect my time and appreciate the quality reports I provide and pay accordingly. I usually ignore all other bid solicitations. I once bid on an appraisal from a different AMC that regularly sends me bid requests. I bid because this was a large historic property located near me and I really wanted to see it. My bid which was reasonable, was accepted. The order was cancelled about 7 hours later. I called the selling agent out of curiosity and because I knew her personally. I asked if the buyers had changed lenders or anything. She said they hadn’t. I told her I had received the order, but that it had been cancelled shortly after I accepted it. She said she couldn’t think of any reason for that and that her buyers had paid $800 for the appraisal. My fee was $650. My conclusion was that this lender had found someone to do it cheaper after they accepted my bid. The result is that while they may have made a few extra dollars on this assignment, I will never bid or accept another appraisal from them. Their emails go right to the trash folder.
I have had many similar situations to this. Most recently I bid on a Rush order and was given it. Less than a day before I was to inspect the property it was cancelled. I spoke with the realtor and was informed a couple other appraiser had called and set up appointments. I assume it was because of the fee. One week later I got a request from the same AMC to complete the same order they cancelled! The other appraisers never showed up! I charged them more than my original bid and they had to took it! They missed the original due date by 5 days!
Julia, if those amc emails are coming from Appraisal Scope, you can write in to Scope help and ask for a special block. Scope now allows appraisers to opt out of all communication with any specific amc company. You just have to write in and ask. We deserve unsubscribe options to amc’s constant email solicitation. Also Mercury offers a blanket do not accept bids checkbox option. Years of forwarding amc ‘bid spam’ emails back to these companies finally made a difference. Do not use the spam button though, or you could be unknowingly blind to valid orders which also flow through those systems.
Thanks for sharing this info
Worked years for this, finally got through.These amc’s, no matter how many times we say please stop sending us spam bids, they persist. What other company is not allowed to unsubscribe from unwelcome solicitations, unless they risk losing valid work? UNSUBSCRIBE! Now a possibility, just write support at appraisal scope dot com, forward the spam bids with the request.
Also important to reiterate; If you use the spam button within your own email you could unknowingly become blind to direct assignment orders which come through these systems. So also a good idea to write in and ask for your email to be turned on and/or assure it’s active. If you click spam on an amc, you may then in turn get blocked with direct assignment work from totally different companies. Because they come from the same email servers and your email does not recognize the difference between this sender or that sender, as it recognizes all as the same sender, having all originated through Scope systems. Then manage the spam requests which will follow via the support desk, turn them off one by one. The thing is if you press spam, they’ll turn off all your emails and you’ll never see them, direct lender invites, orders, and amc bids. They finally offered a way to turn off amc contacts per request per company. It’s been a relief at least for the few months.
Yep, this happens all the time….
Axis. Enough said. How about they look within their own industry first with regard to changing “behavior”. Considering the shopping games so many play with appraisers. So typical and hypocritical of AMCs to gaslight the public by claiming late deliveries re disparity in TOS agreements with their Lenders falls short because of Appraisers.
Exactly my reaction when I saw AXIS..the irony and laughability
I left the fee appraisal world 3 years ago and yet reading that article still gave me complete joy! Karma… ??
Whichever way you look at it, AMCs have brought this on themselves. Even with all of the increase in appraisal activity, AMCs are still fee shopping. For them, it’s all about skimming money. Lenders who continue to use them can not possibly be so clueless.
In addition, AMCs continue to blame appraisers and are telling their lender clients and the public that appraisal fee increases are the fault of the appraiser, when they are adding even more on top of our fee. I had an appraiser in a disclosure state share with me that an AMC’s fee was $1,000 over the appraiser’s fee.
Like others here are commenting, what good does it do to provide a fee quote and turn time when you won’t hear back on it for a week to 10 days? Then the AMC expects you to still honor your quoted due date. (ain’t gonna happen)
While the AMCs want to make appraisers out to be the bad guy, it’s just their own chickens coming home to roost.
The problem is that we, as Professional Appraisers, have failed to educate and inform the public about issues caused and exacerbated by the AMCs. So they believe the AMC lies.
Oh preach!
Appraisers are ghosting AMC’s?
Kind of like AMC’s do with our fee?
One example is in fact….. AXIS. They take 30 days to pay appraisers. They use EVERYDAY of it even though they already collected the fee from the lender.
Oh sure…. you can “PAY” them to get it earlier. Why AXIS… do I have to “PAY” you a fee to get MY fee for the job I already completed?
Oh yeah……. you’re a MIDDLEMAN that wants a piece of my money.
Portal / maintenance / technology / upload /blah/blah/blah fee’s.
And appraisers are ghosting you? SMH.
Well – the AMCs have a collective organization and stick together. Do we? The AMCs didn’t bring this on us – WE DID. Know your value.
I think it’s a little humorous but it’s also unprofessional on the appraiser’s part. Don’t accept the assignment. Let the bottom of the barrel AMC requests go right to your spam folder. The AMC model just needs to go. Back in the day there were few niche AMCs that helped get some stuff placed. Now it’s a joke.
Told an AMC the other day not to send us anymore assignments if they couldn’t offer us our scheduled fee. They were sending us jobs with fees we charged back in 2000 or even later. Plus wanted their reports done yesterday.
The AMC business model has been corrupted and will never be satisfied until the Independent Appraiser is actually paying the AMC for the privilege to do the work. Give the Appraiser back their time and resources to build a profitable business with staff and your turn time problems will take care of themselves. And yes, the AMC typically wastes 7-10 days “shopping” before even assigning the order in my experience.
Management that can only tap into about a quarter of the licensed appraiser workforce. It should come as no surprise that companies whom specialize in taking advantage of others have attracted vendors with similar mindsets. Until amc’s can bill for services separately, assign everything directly, pay the VA rate, abandon the indemnity agreement approaches, assign order volume fairly among all panel appraisers, and a rather lengthy list of other shortcomings, they will never again be able to tap into the majority of the appraiser workforce whom has carved out alternate working opportunities.
Policy makers should get a clue that the REVAA amc trade group is an extension of big lending and is in no way reflective of the majority of licensed appraisers. Appraisal management is a totally different industry compared to appraisal development. The indignity of the business model, like having a lawyer answer to a janitor or a mortgage banker subject to the whims and edicts of regular bank tellers.
Axis was not all bad. They did often assign direct at consistent fees. Perhaps it was short sighted for the aggressive management to chop appraisers off left and right, to let employees bully the appraisers around. Axis was among the last of them whom presented hopes of fair engagements, what a shame.
No lie, I turn down 10 to 20 orders a week from AMC’s. I cherry pick and accept only those orders that will be the most profitable. I ignore those orders that want a fee and turn time, waste my time on ridiculous revision requests, or have burdensome QC software or glitchy delivery portals that give me fits. I am fed up with lenders that want me to contact the borrower within 24 hours, inspect the property within 48 hours, deliver the report within 1 day of the inspection, require that revisions be submitted within 4 hours and then take 30 to 60 days days to send me payment!! Is that fair? Why do they still require the MC Addendum when Fannie and Freddie don’t? I don’t want to do business with them! I have a few good AMC’s who pay really well, very rarely request a revision, and pay promptly. I bend over backwards to give them great service!! The “Great Resignation” as many economists call it, is also hitting the valuation industry. With so much business, we do not have to put up with this $%&*!! Many AMC’s are dealing with problems that they created and refuse to correct. I have a long memory and remember when AMC’s were shafting appraisers. Today, the shoe is on the other foot and appraisers are in control. Suck it up and deal with it.
I don’t know who would ghost an assignment, I certainly wouldn’t. None of the people I trained would. I find it hard to believe, AMCs. There MUST be some other reason, hmmm.
Not to mention the AMCs shopping the assignment for a week and then calling you back asking for the original due date!
Whatever bad happens, they brought it on themselves!
Is there a list of AMCs put together by Appraisers that have done work with them? Maybe a 1 – 5 rating. YELP for AMCs. I would gladly help build that database!
There are absolutely TOO MANY AMC’s for us to try and work with any efficiency. It’s time to kill this business model. WHY do they even exist beyond the Dudd-Fwank effect??
When there are more ‘managers’ than people being managed…
I agree
That would be helpful to share factual information.
Opinions and stuff can get us sued, but documented facts would be enough of a help!
So maybe we just have a list of the 5s. No negative press – just positive. If they are not a “5” just let the orders and requests dump. It would take awhile but it would get noticed. We have friends with other businesses – they take YELP seriously! Rate them on a five check basis. Payment efficiency, Run by real certified Appraisers, realistic fees, response time after you put in a comment or bid, quality of revision requests. Feel free to state your 5.
No excuse for the “small %” of appraisers ghosting the client. However, there is also no excuse for AMS’s not paying in a timely manor. Also, no excuse for the AMC’s offering grossly low fees when sending out bulk requests for appraisals. AMC’s need to clean up their own house while complaining about a small % of appraisers.
AMC’s, realtors, and underwriters treat the appraiser somewhere between the trash collector and the pizza delivery person. They cry when we don’t deliver an appraisal on time, or ‘go dark’ after we accept an order only to be hounded 5x/day to complete it now for a ‘rush’….They are the ones who create their problems, not us…
It is so sad when I hear an appraiser abandoning an order after accepting it, not human, not professional and gives us all a bad name, it happens a lot in my area since a lot of out of area appraisers take an assignment in my resort area to write off a weekend trip etc. what i feel is happening is the lack of good training and the shortening of requirement, ie only a 1,000 hours is not enough, i know i did not feel completely comfortable after several thousand hours, and exposure to more than tract homes. now with data importing, ADU, the exterior reports done on URAR with one small disclaimer, the bifurcated mess that misleads the public and even some lenders. The AMC model made a lot of people flee the industry, the college degree requirements, RE agents have far more influence and interaction with buyers and sellers and they have minimal issues,
Unfortunately, the engagement model of lending appraisals needs some refinement. Namely treating appraisals as a commodity rather than a professional service that should include a scope of work conversation at the engagement. When you retain a professional firm you can expect professional service. Pointer Appraisal Services guarentees all clients a same-day response to emails and calls, we treat clients like they are treated by attorneys or accounting firms, and in return we have clients value that level of service and treat us professionally.
So what about the fact that somehow, some way these loans are going to need an appraisal to complete the process?
Who finally takes on these assignments? I understand that it’s not our immediate problem, but in the bigger picture, it really is.
I’m currently overloaded beyond my capacity as the area I work is very under-served. I’m having to take a ‘it’ll get there when I get it done’ approach, which is not how any of us wants to do business. My clients are bearing with me through this, and I’m being straightforward and maintaining communication. I’ve also recently agreed to take on a trainee. But this volume is about to kill me.
I haven’t ‘ghosted’ anyone, but I’ve sure had a few that threw immature fits and walked off. God bless them and I hope they can find another. There’s only one of me. I’m working as fast as humanly possible.
This is only a lending appraisal issue; I work with many users of appraisal services and non-lending appraisal has absolutely no issues getting qualified appraisers to do their work. Appraisers have national licensing, within a few weeks just about anyone can get an out-of-state reciprocal license; if the market in an area supported additional professional firms with PROFITABLE work, people travel to the work. We have travel nurses, attorneys who travel between states, and accountants that travel between clients, there is no issue in those professions attracting talent. We have the same thing in non-lending, appraisers are available for 100% of assignments, even some of the most complicated and rural projects have multiple appraisal options when users are willing to retain experts.
Probably more of an attention grabbing event. After years of not delivering as promised, have to blame someone.
If only lenders knew the same assignment review and processing tools amc’s use are at the lenders disposal with the same technical distribution companies many amc’s buy into… Stop outsourcing and create a new job already. It’s called an appraisal assignment position and any lender can do it.
Keys to success in appraisal distribution are simple; Do not impose additional scope of work. Do not impose indemnity agreements. Do not impose artificial deadlines but rather stick to rate locks and contract dates. Do not improperly co mingle billing. Do not bid when there is a confirmed consumer disclosed fee for appraisal services already in place. Do not skim off the appraisers fee. Give it a rest with the performance grading approach. Have a fair fee range for all panel vendors. Assign orders fairly.
After 20 years of dealing with AMCs, their bottom feeding is now at an all time high. I have bid on an assignment and seen the same property get broadcasted a day later from another AMC that i work with!! They are searching for the cheap and fast and they don’t care about much else…besides asking for multiple, useless and redundant revisions on multiple occasions. And then the report just sits there in review for hours and sometimes days…but yet they want the order back from appraiser’s NOW. Let’s not even talk about the fact that it has been insanely busy since the beginning of the pandemic, yet our fees are supposed to stay the same and the turn time expectaction has not reduced one bit. I could go on for hours, but I’ll spare your preaching to the choir. I’m not saying ghosting AMC’s is right, but my compassion goes only for the borrowers, not the brokers or especially the AMC’s. As far as the ghosting goes, I am confident that this is not a black and white issue. Appraiser’s have various reasons for doing this, and some of them may be justifiable. We get blamed for everything when something goes wrong, I have heard several borrowers tell me that their loan kept getting delayed or something was going wrong, and every time, either the broker or the AMC blames the appraiser. So no, I don’t feel bad for them. They have zero credibility, zero loyalty, zero compassion. If they give loyalty and fairness, they will receive the same back…PERIOD
I have had several calls from clients that the appraiser just disappeared and they could not contact him, I always knew which appraiser it was. he is now out of business. If you are an AMC or lender take him off your list of appraiser. AMCs were the start of this problem with the way that they treat the appraisers and now they are complaining because of the way they are being treated. The AMC send out requests to 20 appraiser for bids, 2, 3, 4 days or more go by and the appraiser never hears from the AMC, you just ghosted 19 appraisers, the only one you got back to was the one you picked for the assignment. Most of those appraisers researched the property and made some note of what they bid. This take time which equates to $$ and this happens 5 or 6 times a day or more and these bid requests continue to come from the same AMCs sometimes more that once a day. When I get a request for a “Bid” I assume that it was sent to several appraisers and most of the time I just ignore it. If I responded to every bid request it would take up half my day. When I give your a bid, “say yes or no” right away, don’t leave me hanging. My comments, only deal with appraisers that do quality work and keep their word about due dates and pay them whatever they tell you is their FEE. I do not negotiate my fees.
John, join me in my quest to demand that companies like scope and mercury provide appraisers notices of how many other appraisers each and every bid request was sent to.
All these emails come from the same email sending systems. They know how this is working. It’s a question that so far, I have not been able to get them to even acknowledge. Which is telling and indicates to us all we need to know already.
But it’s time they face up to it, the engagement is purposefully being set against the appraiser. Working with these companies is at times like having stock holm syndrome. That’s why I never stop fighting for fair disclosure. Just knocked out a long standing request, ability to stop amc spam bidding with both of them. Now, on to clear transparent indications of competing bid requests so appraisers no longer have to bid in the complete blind, as well as requesting email bidding limitations. I would be fine bidding against like a few other people, but this 10,20,50 different appraisers, not happening.
It’s not reasonable for an amc to have to send out that many emails for a single order. Especially considering the lenders whom have fair fees and direct assignments distribute the majority of their orders, one email, one order placed.
As someone mentioned..AMCs ghost thousands of Appraisers on a daily basis when they send out requests for bids, the Appraiser takes the time to do the research and replies, and then never hears back from the AMC. The Axis guys righteous indignation is really insufferable and self serving – he and his ilk get not an ounce of pity from me.
And they even do it after stating “your requirements have been accepted, please move forward with the order”. You call the POC and they state that an appraiser has already been out to the property. Go back to the company and wait a day or two then they shoot you an email saying oh it’s been cancelled.
No AMC pity from me either!
All AMC’s do is play ”monte hall lets make a deal” they shop for the cheapest and fastest period and could care less if someone knows an area or not. I have had many orders engaged, call the POC, oh appraiser already came, or it gets canceled two days later meaning they still keep shopping for someone cheaper. So it would be ok to do the same and say ”oh i just got an order with a higher so i am canceling the order” after you even set an appt. However there are a few decent AMC’s out there, few and far between I will say
Or, rather than “ghosting” as they describe – here is what may REALLY be happening…. appraiser accepts order, then the AMC staff, Realtors and borrowers harrass the appraiser several times a day everyday by email, phone, text to get the latest update but then does not put the response in their system (or they do and others ignore it). The appraiser, already overwhelmed with work just simply does not have time for all this redundant nonsense that is counterproductive and chooses out of necessity to just update at a few key turning points and ignores the rest of the requests. The AMC staff then freaks out because the appraiser hasn’t responded to a few contact attempts and decides that the order has been abandoned. I was in a severely underserved area and battled this scenario constantly. I just simply did not have enough hours in the day to respond to every call and email, and had to take drastic black-out measures at times to try to focus on actually working the reports and getting caught up after falling behind under the extreme workload conditions. So, if that makes me a ghost… then boo! I had always taken pride in my professionalism and always had the best intentions of providing accurate turn-time quotes, but the past few years volume was unimaginable. I was forced to cut corners on customer service to save any precious minutes I could spend on actually completing the reports.
I easily turned away 20 orders for every 1 that I accepted. It is no joke that just turning down work became a full time job. Good help was hard to find in my area and I tried, but this just tended to make matters worse when they too buckled under the pressure. I did my best, with best intentions but this old lady got chewed up and spit out. The stress from the past 2 years has led me to join the Great Resignation last month. After 25 years, I “retired” 5 years ahead of schedule and just taking part-time deskwork where I can and hoping my finances will adapt. It’s that, or an early grave.
Your experience mirrors mine almost to a tee. I haven’t retired yet, however.
I’ve developed a bit of frankness with them that may or may not be considered ‘professional’. I actually told a couple pesky callers without making the comment personally pointed at them that these incessant requirements for updates were akin to having a 7 year old in the backseat on a road trip. ‘Are we there yet? Are we there yet?’
It may seem like operational efficiency on that side of the desk. But just like fees, there is a direct relationship to time as well. Amc’s cost appraisers a lot of money and a lot of time. Some of the worst negotiation tactics and most inefficient process implementations ever observed in real estate.
Way back when the HVCC came out and changed the appraisal business forever, I said, “why is this middle man taking their fee from us, and not the client who hired them? This is how it should be and should have always been. This left a bitter taste in many appraiser’s mouths. I’m not saying anything off base, what I’m saying is a common sense business profile.
If AMC’s would offer a R & C fee to begin with, next they do not care if someone knows the market, they just want fast and cheap, then a lot of times, an order is agreed upon and I get ghosted with order cancelled repeatedly as they keep shopping and if they find someone $5 cheaper and one day they pully the plug so i have been ghosted by amc;s many times. there is not any loyalty anymore
This only happens every once in a while. We’ve been ghosted probably twice since 2020. And one of the times the appraiser finally turned it in and said they were in the hospital for a couple of weeks. It is really messed up to do this, we basically have to go pay another appraiser to complete the report and we lose the fee we would charge the lender to make up for the delay, especially if it’s a rural area.