Baby or Bath Water? And Is it Time to Take Back USPAP?

Baby or Bath Water? And Is it Time to Take Back USPAP?

About half of AICPA members don’t believe in USPAP…

When I first heard that “they” were trying to do away with the Appraisal Practices Board (APB) of the Appraisal Foundation (TAF), I tried to keep an open mind. I also wondered who “they” are.

Did the Appraisal Institute (AI) finally get a sympathetic ear in Congress? Was it preemptive action by the Board of Trustees in anticipation of budget cuts by the new administration?

By the way, what does the APB do? I certainly had it wrong. I thought they helped develop the Advisory Opinions (AOs)! To be candid the only time I ever think about their specific function is for passing USPAP update courses.

I’m grateful to Lisa Desmarais for pointing me in the right direction. Mrs. Desmarais is the only residential appraiser on the APB.

Before I write my perspective / apparent answers to the above let’s make sure we are all on the same page as to their function. So, what DOES APB do anyway?

The Appraisal Practices Board (APB) is the newest of The Appraisal Foundation’s three boards. The APB offers voluntary guidance to appraisers, regulators, and users of appraisal services on recognized valuation methods and techniques, emerging issues, and other topics that may arise for all valuation disciplines. The APB seeks to identify and provide examples of commonly accepted methods and techniques with evaluative commentary where appropriate. [source ASA Website].

It’s worth taking a look at the Appraisal Practices Board Valuation Advisories page.

To date, they have issued eight (8) advisories:

Those of us who are merely appraisers and NOT professional accountants will count the bullet items and arrive at the number ten rather than eight, or even nine.

It’s ok. Counting is just one more thing accountants and appraisers do differently.

If I haven’t lost you by this point, you already understand why so few people really understand what the APB does.

  1. The results are effectively hidden. Unlike USPAP which is put in our face daily you have to really make an effort to go find their work if all you can think of is Appraisal Subcommittee (ASC), or TAF as a starting point.
  2. Once you find “Valuation Advisories” (and you are a REAL ESTATE Appraiser rather than a ‘Valuator’) your eyes glaze over as soon as you see the first four items (2 if you are an accountant) covering three topics. Only one of which could possibly apply to real estate appraisers. Still with me?

IF you stuck with it and started reading the second number “2” item, or numbers 3-8 you can see that they (APB) really do a thorough and much needed job!

It’s far more than simple opinion paragraphs. They’ll take you through the issue from start to finish, and supply sound “how to” procedural answers.

I think their specific planned upcoming issues have a very limited potential audience. No one aside from a few fanatical environmentalists cares about Green or so called high performing commercial buildings, and VFR (NOT visual flight rules for aircraft pilots) is of interest only to accountants / ‘valuators’.

How about something relevant? Like Proper Review Appraisal Procedures? All appraisers, most regulators and possibly even accountants would benefit from this. Haven’t they ever wondered why ‘court case’ methodology is rejected out of hand by IRS?

Anyway, in my long winded way I’ve arrived at the real problem, and possible answer(s) to why the BOT suspended the activities of the APB.

When USPAP was envisioned under FIRREA, little or no recognition was given to the fact that real estate appraisal and nearly ALL other forms of ‘valuation’ differ dramatically. Expanding USPAP by reserving Standard Rule Sections for future inclusion of these other disciplines was a BAD IDEA to start with.

Yes, we all call certain approaches by the same name (sales comparison, cost and income) but that is where any similarity really ends. Adopting the accountants term ‘Valuator’ and ‘Valuation’ in lieu of ‘Appraisal’ failed to magically cause us to view our basic functions more similarly.

Example: To an appraiser ‘market derived rent’ is basically the amount that is verified to result from current open market lessor and lessee perceptions as evidenced by existing, current negotiated leases/rents, or current asking rates. The appraiser will knock on doors, check current listings or analyze actual leases for this information.

To the valuator, market rent is the dollar equivalent of the return required to provide the hypothetical Wall Street Investor the rate of return they demand (require). It only involves one side of the postulated market transaction: that of the investor.

For an apartment project Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) data published ten, fifteen or even twenty years ago may be used to develop the ‘market rate’ of return required that will in turn be used to dictate what ‘market rent’ is.

In 2009 a very senior IRS “Manager” once answered my somewhat naive inquiry about why the American Institute of CPAs (AICPA) and Real Estate Appraisers don’t all just adopt USPAP? Her response is telling: “Because about half of AICPA members don’t believe in USPAP.” Had I really considered that statements impact I’d probably still work there, and her soon after retirement may not have been hastened.

Ongoing (failed) attempts to treat valuators and appraisers as if we are the same have failed. Worse, they have actually eroded rather than preserved or enhanced confidence the American People had or have in BOTH DISCIPLINES. THAT is contrary to the objective of FIRREA.[i]

It’s also grossly unfair to the professionals in both disciplines.[ii]

I think someone in Congress has finally realized it is time to stop torturing FIRREA, USPAP and appraiser / valuator practitioners alike. Real Estate Appraisal and Business Valuation are NOT the same! Whether the other disciplines are appropriately governed by FIRREA under the USPAP umbrella remains to be seen.

My sources in Washington, DC have proven trustworthy in all my past contacts with them. What appraisers, American taxpayers and consumers now face is far worse than the potential loss of ‘only’ the APB.

Probable elimination of Dodd-Frank (DF) is not a surprise, however the extent and impact of proposed provisions are.

Informed sources state in addition to DF repeal that GOP House Members and Senators are already drafting legislative language for the complete elimination of the ASC AND TAF! AI lobbyists are cheerfully going for a Grand Slam!

They haven’t been successful in getting alternative standards adopted nationally, nor have they gotten rid of the APB (seen as a potential alternative appraisal education source) but they and other interests are getting receptive ears in the area of complete elimination of FIRREA’s appraisal related and implementing provisions!

What we hear from the new Administration is that extensive though as yet undetermined scope changes will soon be forthcoming for all GSEs, along with a return to privatization and independence for FNMA and FreddieMac.

Cutting FNMA loose could be a good idea if they were cut completely loose and it is made 100% clear to all customers and investors that there is no and will be no backing by American taxpayers (ever again).

Not all of Dodd Frank and it’s Consumer Financial Protection Bureau were bad ideas. Admittedly enough are seen by the GOP as bad ideas so that its likely both will disappear.

As was once pointed out by our former President, “elections have consequences.” The pendulum of political equilibrium has now swung in the opposite direction. That’s OK. Our system of governance was designed for this exact concept.

Dodd Frank included two absolutely critical requirements to promote & preserve the integrity of appraisal: non interference with appraisal independence and reasonable and customary fee requirements.

As Congress rewrites major legislation dealing with America’s financial security my only hopes are that they will do so (as far as feasible) in a bipartisan manner and in a way that considers what is best for taxpayers instead of special interests.

FIRREA, USPAP, the ASC and TAF as well as ALL its Boards are critical to maintaining or enhancing real estate ‘appraisal’ credibility in America. Only accounting / valuators can decide if they also have a need for USPAP. BUT TAF should limit its attention to real estate appraisers and appraisal!

In any event, please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater!


[i] California Accountancy Board administers CPA licensing in that State. There is NO REQUIREMENT for USPAP knowledge; CE courses or to follow USPAP in CPA practice according to their state CPA licensing board. USPAP does NOT apply to business valuation practice.

[ii] Other appraisal disciplines appear to be more adaptable & consistent with USPAP.

Michael Ford
Latest posts by Michael Ford (see all)
Michael Ford

Michael Ford

Over 28 years appraising all property types and interests, in Southern California real estate. VP/Chairman National Appraiser Peer Review Committee, American Guild of Appraisers, #44OPEIU/AFL-CIO. - Michael Ford on e-AppraisersDirectory

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31 Responses

  1. Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

    As someone trying to become an appraiser…there needs to be some sort of change. I am willing to spend the money (looks like about $5000 or more) and the time (2 years or so) to do this, but cannot get anyone to mentor me.

    Seems like an industry where the workers are aging out and demand is high would be more interested in making it easier for potential candidates to even attempt to join in.

    I get the reasons for the training, but when existing folks who signed up to be mentors will not do it (and I don’t expect to be paid for training!), there is a definite issue.

    • Mike Ford Mike Ford says:

      Hi Rainey

      You shouldn’t have to spend a$5,000 on books or training to become an appraiser. Yes, over time you will spend that and perhaps more to become a GOOD appraiser. I don’t know what state you are in but it also doesn’t take two years to become an appraiser. It may take varied time (depending on state) to become a fully  licensed appraiser; and certainly it takes 2 or more years to become a good appraiser

      It also does and in my opinion, SHOULD take THREE years to become certified because I don’t think you can gain the experience needed to warrant being certified from a classroom. Many disagree with me.

      The current trend and thinking in The Appraisal Foundation / AQB is that a degree and ‘other’ education can replace experience. You can contact them direct for information on that but since its not something I believe in or support, I’m not going to do that research homework for you. (hint-contact AQB).

      Whoever is telling you demand is high is misleading you. Demand is only high for appraisers that are also willing to work for unreasonably low fees. Fees that are realistically to low to support a business, maintain an office and raise a family.

      Those of us that are aging would love to train newcomers. It’s personally rewarding to do so BUT not economic yet. FNMA just announced that THEY will accept trainee inspections (meaning we don’t have to go out on every single job with you after a generally undetermined “left up to us” training period), BUT the language is parsed so badly that just ONE COMPLAINT (justified or not) would leave us vulnerable to license fines or revocation and no way to defend ourselves adequately.

      Example: After a dozen or so inspections I may want to try sending you on your own. I EXPECT some errors will take place but it’s a stepping stone. If I’m allowed to re-inspect on a spot basis I can make sure no significant oversights exist but if I have to re-inspect every single one to protect my own license, what is the point? You wouldn’t be going on complex assignments; you’d take MANY pictures;l, and probably operate off a check list and frankly it would be the kind of assignments I could do on a desk appraisal basis and not be far off.

      UNFORTUNATELY – assume our appraisal is less than amount needed to refinance or sell/buy a house and agent gets mad. No basis, just reaction.

      State gets complaint. I used a trainee. Dishwasher turned out not to work. Trainee ASKED tenant if it did and they lied. Trainee didn’t run the DW (nor would I normally – but then I’m no trainee defending myself and let’s assume this isn’t an FHA deal).

      Broken DW would NOT have affected value measurably. Say its 35 years old, out of date anyway and buyer planned to renovate kitchen anyway. USED DW could be bought and installed for $250 (new up to $1,000?). On $310,000 to $320,000 range that’s 3/10ths of 1% for new. Maybe Value desired was $315,000. We appraised at $310,000 because not one comparable supported anything higher. DW would NOT have affected result BUT because “we broke the agents deal” they file complaint.

      Not finding and reporting the broken DW is written up as follows (against supervisors license)

      1. Ethics Rule line 233 & 241 (neither were violated but they are coercing a consent agreement)

      2. They accuse you of saying “I see no problem with the value” (you  never did but that’s the accusation) They say “We told him we didn’t want to get stuck paying for an appraisal we can’t use. Claim you aid no problem again. States Says Management violation lines 268-272

      3. Competency Rule violation is an automatic charge

      4. Scope of work Rule…

      See where Im going? We haven’t even reached Standard Rule 1 yet and they already have enough charges to fine me $5,000 to $10,000 and pull (suspend or revoke) my license!

      All that over an upset agent and an innocently missed broken dishwasher that didn’t measurable impact value or marketability anyway.

      Now whats my incentive for training you again? You earned $200 and so did I out of a fee that wasn’t C&R t begin with.

      In an environment of regulatory common sense and fair play I’d risk it. In the current punitive mind set environment where states are looking to replace lost license fees with big fines and backs and AMCs are only paying $350 to $400 for what should be minimum $650-$700??

      I wish you the best of luck.

      • Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

        I’m in Montana…need to have 2000 hours of training over no less than 18 months.

        We do have a shortage here…takes 60-90 days for appraisals in most areas…especially the more rural ones.

        Sure there’s no incentive to train me…I may take business…but when we have even fewer appraisers because of retirement, the loss is everyone’s. banks lose when they have to extend rate locks…sellers lose because they cannot buy something else (may have a deal pending sale of their place)…buyers have to wait longer and possibly pay for rate extensions. Eventually the whole economy suffers.

        I wish I could take the classes and hope for a mentor, but $1500 off the top for a risk is more than I can do. I want to help out but the doors just get slammed in my face by “mentors” who signed up for the training program so that they could refuse to train. Nobody forced them to join…

      • Baggins Baggins says:

        Shoot, I put out about 10 to 15k a year in tax write offs. There is about a 2.5k yearly base cost regardless of other expense write offs, and you’d probably land on dial up hand writing reports on recycled paper with a pencil if you tried to be that thrifty.

        A popular misconception about real estate ownership is that it’s a privilege and not earned. Nobody forces all the little joe and janes of the world to go into debt, they do so willingly, at their own expense and risk.

        There are entirely too many appraisers already, and too many; brokers, bankers, inspectors, underwriters, investors, etc. If people owned their homes and escaped debt, the would be better balance to it all. The monstrously oversized mortgage market continues to roll downhill, and will continue to do so as long as the financially ignorant continue to be slaves to debt. This is the pump before the pop, get ready for the same cycle and what comes next is the smart money and reo activity, accompanied by the financially dependent crying about spilled milk.

        Current status; down to about 10 years on 1st home, only 5 years in. Quick flipped refi to a 15 and I’m leaving this nightmare which is slave to monthly housing costs behind me at the very first possible convenience. People ask me; how do you get the best deal and stay safe with mortgages? The answer is simple; You’re at risk until the final payment is made and the deed is in your safe. You don’t own it until you own it 100% and only fools rush in for repeat finances.

        Hurt me with the truth, but never comfort me with a lie. Being an appraiser is about the art of the deal. Most existing appraisers never deserved to be licensed in the first place. They have no sense of fair deals and that’s why amc’s proliferated.

    • Avatar Wayne Courtney says:

      Gee Rainey…I sure wish you the best! My daughter is a certified residential appraiser and I am a general certified appraiser. My grown son studied and received his barber license. He went back to school and now has an HVAC license. He lacks only a few college credits from having his degree. I have asked him for the past 15 years if he wants to be a real estate appraiser. GEE…his sister and myself can sponsor him. We do it all from VA, FHA, FNMA, USDA, TXDot, all types of court testimony, right of way, divorce, oil and gas, etc. The ONLY thing we will not accept is AMC work! (and we could do hundreds of these each year) He says NO….does not want to do this! I do not blame him! When you see thousands of appraisers dropping out of this occupation each year….need to ask yourself WHY? Is it smart to join an occupation where all of those who have been doing this for years are dropping out? Are you smarter than those of us already in this pitiful business? Just asking? If so, tell us why…as I really would like to know! LOL

      • Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

        definitely not claiming to be smarter than anyone! 🙂

        I just know that right now, in Montana, there is a desperate need for appraisers (especially diligent ones who care about the overall transaction and whatnot…I consider myself to qualify as such).

        I have my own consulting business, but honestly, I’m tired of online advertising after 18 years in the business and want something to add to my repetoire. I don’t plan to get rich quick or anything…just an additional career to be able to get away from the computer a bit more. Love my consulting…but need more in the mix! 🙂

      • Baggins Baggins says:

        That’s an interesting blip of dialogue.

        Is a consultant a non advocate? That is what unbiased appraisal is all about.

        It’s not that this industry needs smarter people, that is not the proper measure of demand.

        This industry needs more people capable of being unbiased non advocates. Being that the industry is riddled with backwards rewards and criminals on every corner, the measure of success is best lined up with ethics, not cash.

        I watch them come and go. It’s easy to undersell the competition in this business and even easier to have it all blow up in your face the very next day. You’re only as good as your last appraisal.

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      I can only assume that you did little to no research on this field if you wish to become an appraiser.  If you have done adequate research and still wish to enter this SOON TO BE OBSOLETE JOB (not profession) you deserve all of the pain and agony that will handed to you throughout your journey.  Appraisers are not leaving because they are reaching retirement age Rainey…they are leaving because it is quickly becoming a nonprofit, high liability JOB.  I quit at age 48 and had hopes of doing this until I was 75.  That should give you some clue.

      • Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

        Appreciate your input…would appreciate it more if it wasn’t a bit insulting. I think the only place I didn’t do proper research was to post on here…obviously this is the “unhappy appraisers” spot.

        Everyone I’ve talked to loves their independence and the income…sorry that wasn’t the case for you.

      • Avatar Jack Of All Trades says:

        Rainey smith I see that you wish to get off the computer a bit more from your current job……..just a FYI you will be on the computer a hell of a lot more than out on the field, it takes a long long time to type up an appraisal report.

        Best wishes

      • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

        I recommend that you talk to many more appraisers then Rainey. Believe it or not; this particular blog (the unhappy appraiser spot as you call it) is by far the best appraisers blog on the internet. There were once 7-8 good appraisal blogs on the web; as more and more appraisers (and blog owners) fled the business the other blogs disappeared. If you’re looking for sunshine filled appraisal blog where nobody complains about this dead end job visit Oh, that’s right they no longer allow discussion because those commenting were saying nasty things about this career and ruining her education business.

        Best of luck to you. I’m being negative for a reason. Take a look at how many newbys are not entering the “profession”. Now ask yourself why nobody wants in and everyone is fleeing.

        If you’re into paying extortion fees in exchange for AMC work…go for it. It’s the only way you will get work as a new appraiser.

        If you’re into assuming liability for millions of dollars in past work completed for 7 years or so…go for it.

        If you’re into doing twice the work for 1/2 the fees that appraisers earned a few short years ago….go for it.

        If you’re into running into a burning house while everyone else is fleeing…by all means…go for it.

        Someone has to do this crappy job until the AVMs take over. It may as well be you.

      • Avatar Jack Of All Trades says:

        Just a FYI retired, appraisal buzzard is allowing comments again via Facebook , LMFAO.

      • Baggins Baggins says:

        Retired Appraiser specializes in hurting feelings and doom and gloom. It’s his forte.

        “What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.” Ecclesiastes 1:4-11

        Christ already saved the world. If you’re waiting for another hero to show up and save it again, you’ve stared at the sun too long.

  2. Bubba Jay / Retired Appraiser II Bubba Jay / Retired Appraiser II says:

    Michael, just letting you know that you spelled “USCRAP” incorrectly throughout the story.

    i said it for almost 20 years – YOU CANT REGULATE SOMEONES INTEGRITY. someone will either be honest or they wont be. every state has laws against murder, but people still murder dont they? a murderer is a murderer. i dont care how tight, how finite, or how ridiculous that document is written, it wont stop an appraiser who is dishonest. with or without USCRAP, an appraiser will either work in a manner to avoid legal jeopardy, or they wont, PERIOD. and thats why USCRAP is worthless.

    also, USCRAP should never be used against any appraiser for petty, honest infractions, but it is. thats the crime here and is reason #247 why the profession is a complete mess.

    the other crime is forcing appraisers to retake a USCRAP class every two years. the ridiculously high cost for the class and the book is absurd. forcing appraisers to sit in an all-day class just to learn that “the” has changed to “the” on page 17, paragraph 4, is STUPID and UNNECESSARY, and is a waste of appraisers time and money.

    unfortunately, the days of people working for the BENEFIT of appraisers is long gone isnt it? the focus has clearly changed to destroying appraisers and RAISING FUNDS, and nothing more.

    welcome to 2017 – over-regulation, by over-reaching and out-of control regulators. it has all finally come to an ugly head, and the current statistics prove it.

    • Mike Ford Mike Ford says:

      Bubba y’all getting cynical on me! I personally think regulators ARE looking to levy fines to replace lost fees. Remember fees USED to fund their offices. Now they don’t have those fees anymore.

      Also, ASC can downgrade their performance ratings for not having adequately funded enforcement. ASC  can cause ‘non recognition’ (bad).

      You don’t REALLY think they’d opt to drive us all out of business so they can charge MUCH HIGHER annual AMC fees and AMCs can make it pencil out by offering $75 “Big Data tested desk top appraisals run by ‘special’ designated appraiser using trainees / typists do you?

  3. Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

    Well the only thing all of you folks have convinced me of…is to not like this page anymore. I don’t need a bunch of vitrolic, negative people in my life.

    I just spent 9 months buying a property…part of that was because we needed to get the appraisal done twice (and on the second time…it was a mere formality but it did give me time to find several errors in the original)…bear in mind that I paid $1000 the first time…and $500 for the name of the bank to be changed the second time! This was because that was the ONLY appraiser who could do anything faster than 90 days.

    So…you guys can think I’m stupid if you want (you appear to)…and you can tell people there is no need etc…but here in Montana, we don’t always mimic the rest of the world. We have big swaths of rural areas…lots of real estate transactions…and very few appraisers to do them. The banks…oddly…require that an appraisal is done…so yes Virginia’s, there IS a need up here.

    enjoy your “retirement”…no job or profession should be hated…so you did right by quitting. Let someone who wants to do it have at it. I’m sure there are plenty of options for someone who likes to belittle someone for trying something new and someone who assumes that everyone is dumber than they are.

    been real…glad to not see any of your posts again!

    • Avatar Wayne says:

      I had an uncle who used to say advice was something that was not worth a damn unless it is what you already want to hear! If Montana is not big enough for you…come to TEXAS! We have 254 counties with 74 of the counties having zero appraisers. There is another 50 counties with only one appraiser! This covers at least 50,000 acres. Texas is the fastest growing state in the union!…Could there be a reason that 74 counties do not have a single appraiser? I do wish you well! Hop in, the water is just fine!

    • Rainey, this site is a source of unfiltered, honest information as perceived by the posters making the observations..

      We have our resident curmudgeon who shares his unfiltered views with us as a reminder hat there are better ways to live. Most posting here will try to post seriously and toward the substance of your posts.

      Regardless of where you live, a little bit of a thick skin is a necessary attribute…LOTS of people will yell at you over the course of an appraisal career.

      • Bubba Jay / Retired Appraiser II Bubba Jay / Retired Appraiser II says:

        the poster is someone trying to break into the profession Mike. that was made pretty clear in the original post. no licensed record of him will be found.

        i am always fascinated by bloggers who have no clue what they are talking about, but whos ego is so large that it makes them to post things anyway, and then try to come off as some kind of expert on something. clearly the OP is not in the appraisal business at all, and therefore has no history knowledge, or current knowledge of all the problems that plague(d) the business. well, i guess he does know its hard to get in.

        there are many problems with the profession right now, its no longer anyones opinion, the statistics show this. most people are getting out, few are getting in, many who are in are not happy. i see no problem with complaining, otherwise how else would anyone know that something might be wrong? if one person is complaining, i can guarantee you that there are atleast 50 who arent. many people who are actually IN the profession, know all the problems, and are very negative right now, and are upset for good reasons. appraisers who have been in the business the longest, probably do tend complain more because they have seen a lot of changes over DECADES.

        i think now IS the time to be negative, and complain, and try to change things before its too late. its called trying to make a difference. if people who are trying to make a difference are seen as being negative, then whatever, so be it. but i say now is not the time for the people who are actually IN the business, and may have TOTAL SKIN IN THE GAME, to wear rose-covered glasses.

        how can seasoned veterans not laugh at a complete outsider, with zero appraisal experience, who say they want in to appraise for fun on the side, and talk like they have any clue as to whats really going on?

        sorry Mike, but i say let the guy take his clueless ego down the road, and dont let him make it sound like a board full of seasoned veterans who actually know what the h*ll they are talking about, will be the ones missing out. they wont be.

        • Mike Ford Mike Ford says:

          Hi Bubba, I caught that after posting-tried to correct by deletion but apparently that doesn’t work. Bubba, I disagree re  newcomers. I try to tell them the cold truth but no reason to be mean in the process. I suspect poster may not be thick skinned enough to last in this business; but if he or she pursues it they should be aware THAT is one of the ‘job skills’ that also has to be acquired.

          Other than that, I had a rude email of mine that blew up into FAR more trouble than it was worth or the circumstances warranted. I may be a slow learner but I DO learn *g*.

        • Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

          wow…you might want to at least get a person’s gender right…I may have short hair but it’s somewhat obvious that I am female. really nice…

          and as for a clueless ego…nah. and I do have a thick skin…but I don’t tolerate bullshit and assumptions.

          maybe the business is not for me…as I prefer not to work with a**holes.

        • Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

          and if you will read my original post…you’ll note that I did NOT pretend to know anything except that here in Montana it is EXTREMELY difficult to get into the business. I did not pretend to know anything else (except that I know there is a need based upon my own state).

          I also never said I wanted to “appraise for fun on the side”…I merely stated that I’d like to do it in addition to my existing consulting business.

          I still would like to be an appraiser, but if you all are examples of who I would be working with…I question my desire. I prefer people trying to make things better instead of bitching about things and making “outsiders” feel exactly like that.

          don’t worry…I’ve stopped following the blog…so you guys got rid of me…

      • Hi Mike, just FYI, your edited comment was posted. However, the original comment had already been emailed to people who had subscribed to be notified of followup comments. And so Bubba responded to your original comment without realizing that you had edited it. No biggie but just wanted to let you know that your edits were properly saved. The edit and delete functions are working properly.


  4. Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

    Well the only thing all of you folks have convinced me of…is to not like this page anymore. I don’t need a bunch of vitrolic, negative people in my life.

    I just spent 9 months buying a property…part of that was because we needed to get the appraisal done twice (and on the second time…it was a mere formality but it did give me time to find several errors in the original)…bear in mind that I paid $1000 the first time…and $500 for the name of the bank to be changed the second time! This was because that was the ONLY appraiser who could do anything faster than 90 days.

    So…you guys can think I’m stupid if you want (you appear to)…and you can tell people there is no need etc…but here in Montana, we don’t always mimic the rest of the world. We have big swaths of rural areas…lots of real estate transactions…and very few appraisers to do them. The banks…oddly…require that an appraisal is done…so yes Virginia’s, there IS a need up here.

    enjoy your “retirement”…no job or profession should be hated…so you did right by quitting. Let someone who wants to do it have at it. I’m sure there are plenty of options for someone who likes to belittle someone for trying something new and someone who assumes that everyone is dumber than they are.

    been real…glad to not see any of your posts again!

  5. Mike Ford AGA, CA AG, GAA, RAA, Realtor ® Mike Ford AGA, CA AG, GAA, RAA, Realtor ® says:

    AB-Got it! Thank you. (mike)

    Rainey, Your words speak volumes. I’m not versed on the myriad number of obscure seemingly gender neutral names. The use of he or she was intended to avoid giving offense &  using an unsupported assumption about your gender.

    It appears from your posts that you have more than a few social behavior windmills left to tilt with. I’m sure you will love being an appraiser…if you can find anyone willing to accept your requirements of conduct. Good luck.

    • Rainey Smith on Facebook Rainey Smith on Facebook says:

      You used he or she…not a biggie…another poster merely assumed masculine. I was taught to respond as if there was no gender or to give both as you did if unsure…never to assume one or another.

      I’m not sure what “social behavior windmills left to tilt with” even means. I am quite easy going but don’t tolerate troll behavior well admittedly. The internet has done many great things but allowing anonymity so that the worst in human tendencies can appear is not one of them.

      I’m sure you were insulting me…but y’know…anyone unwilling to try to help a newbie get into an industry should be the one to look at themselves a bit more closely. I run a successful consulting business in which I have helped others get into the same line. I have enough confidence in my product to accept competition.

      I’m done here…life is short and I believe in surrounding myself with people who want me around. You guys have made it quite clear that you don’t.

      Enjoy your little blog…

      • Baggins Baggins says:

        I’m getting out my tiny violin for all the hurt feeling people of the world right now. Perhaps some more time on tumbler and facebook will make the world right again? If you can’t take the heat, gtfo of the kitchen, noob. Nobody wants to hear all the crying. I worked 4 years for practically free and now I write my own ticket all these years later. Most hopeful trainees mistake apprenticeship for employment, but that’s not the case. Pay me 15k a year, and I’ll be happy to train you, but if you’re lucky I’ll accept a no pay scenario without any no compete clauses. Otherwise, tough cookies, too bad, so sad, better break into mortgage brokerage, sales, or inspections instead. Appraisal is the top tier, not the entry level gig. People think because they took the apprentice class that they’re somehow in. McKissock and Jones swindled another one, happens every day of the week.

        This just in, partially related;

        Obama Robbed Private Investors to Fund Obamacare

    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Let me clear it up for you Mike;

      When on any social network platform and someone cries about hurt feelings, the proper denotion is; “Snowflake.”

      This blog site is run by a lady, and a lady whom is not afraid to stand up against any and all opposition. Her ‘little blog’ carries about 20x the experience of the noobs and is the only appraisers site online not controlled by corporate sponsors and which does not seek to sell you anything. Being for sale is easy. Being independent in the face of massive special interest opposition is the hard part.
      The beat skips on and this industry crushed another one, in record time even! lol!

      • Bags – I’m not overly concerned what non appraisers say in the end. She’s either a troll intentionally trying to lower the level of discourse or believes what she posted.

        It just proves how lucky we are to have an appraisers site where issues and dissenting views can be voiced without fear of censorship (crude personal attacks or language aside).

        Thanks AB!

  6. Baggins Baggins says:

    Brand new appraisers challenge 2017:

    Show me one AMC whom operates nationally that utilizes state approved fee studies in each and every state they operate in, regardless if the law requires that or not.

    There are none because their ethic only goes as far as the law demands and is otherwise absent.

    When it comes to dealing with new guy or gal appraisers, it’s best to put them to the test early. If they can’t handle the discourse between appraisers peers, they probably don’t know what’s coming when they stand between 30k+ of agent and distributor amc company commissions on every side.

    Heard some disconcerting stories already early 2017, fees declining again from previous 2 year highs. That’s why I don’t chase high fees anymore and instead seek out clients with permanent increased minimums. We all need a chair and if I can’t continue to get 550 or better, I probably will bounce to something else. It felt good to finally earn as much as your everyday terd herder plumber or attic rat sht crawling around in the dark electric worker grunt. I almost earned as much as a pizza hut manager last year.

    The new normal will certainly be that in any given hot market there will suddenly be inadequate appraisers. Not only have amc’s squeezed the supply chain virtually dry, but when times turn up most experienced appraisers immediately bounce to sales anyways. It’s no coincidence that in the nations hottest markets like tx, or, and co, there was an undersupply of appraisers. But amc’s are not that bright, they have still yet to add 2 and 2 together.

  7. Apologies for posting here-Webinar is tomorrow – I just learned of it. FREE HousingWire Webinar — Wednesday, March 1

    I was originally mildly annoyed with my favorite National Membership Coordinator for sending me a link without telling me what it’s about.

    This is for a webinar registration that features a cast of characters that alone makes it worth attending or watching.

    It’s titled “What’s Going to Happen to Appraisers in 2017”. It’s to be moderated by Jacob Gaffney, editor of Housing Wire.

    Usually I’m pretty careful about who I give an opportunity to pollute my mind but this cast of characters includes a truly noteworthy Rogues Gallery. Their bios are interesting.

    “Brian Coester, CEO, Coester VMS “For nearly a decade, Coester has immersed himself not only in the appraisal industry but in the mortgage industry as a whole. As a certified appraiser, he has a firm understanding of what is important in a valuation and how it affects the industry.”

    Alan Hummel, Chief Appraiser First American Mortgage Solutions (Anyone remember the folks that bought ACI or developed PACE PRO?) Now for the good part:

    “Alan is a past national president of the Appraisal Institute and is also a representative member on the Appraisal Subcommittee Advisory Committee (ASCAC).

    Zachary Dawson, Director Collateral Strategy & Policy. FannieMae “Responsible for Fannie Mae’s Single Family collateral strategy as a whole, covering both Selling Guide policy and use of collateral technology tools including Collateral Underwriter®. He also oversees the Appraiser Quality Monitoring initiative, collateral analytics & reporting, and other strategic appraisal initiatives”

    I’m deliberately leaving the fourth off because I have no knowledge of them other than info that speaker is a reported partner in a multi county Florida appraisal firm owned by MAIs, and that he is a former Florida State Regulator.

    Seeing who the featured speakers are helps us to better understand why the state of our profession is what it is today.


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