Transparency… Where is it?

Transparency - Where is it?

Is transparency with the lender?

Did the lender explain to the borrower the fee they (the borrower) are paying to the AMC and the benefit they are receiving? Oh wait, what benefit is the AMC to the borrower? Was this fee disclosed verbally, in writing or anywhere? Did the lender disclose any relationship they have with the AMC?

Is transparency with the AMC? Did the AMC disclose their fee to the borrower? Did the AMC disclose how much the appraiser is being paid? Did the AMC explain any benefit of their service to the borrower? Did the AMC explain how the appraiser was chosen? Did the AMC disclose how they arrived at the C&R fee to the appraiser?

Is transparency with the appraiser? Did the appraiser disclose the appraisal was ordered with an AMC? Did the appraiser disclose the compensation received for the appraisal? Did the appraiser disclose any fee required to deliver the report?

Well it appears the appraiser is the only party providing any transparency. If the Dodd-Frank Act and State Regulations were passed to protect the consumer, why is it the appraiser is the only one providing any transparency?

While we are on the subject of transparency, are you, the appraiser, disclosing the request for revisions from the AMC and/or client within your report? If not, you should be! VaCAP recommends copying and pasting the request for revisions within the report and then responding. Why do this? Transparency! Everyone, the AMC, the client, the investor, and the borrower are all informed of any revisions requested. And if you end up defending your work against a complaint filed with the VREAB, they too have been informed! This not only protects you, the appraiser, it protects the consumer.

Sample verbiage would be:

The original appraisal report was signed and delivered on May 1, 2016. On May 5, 2016 the appraiser received the following request: Copy and paste the request here.

Appraisers Response: Type your response here. Make any corrections needed within the report and outline the changes here. Be professional in your response. If you made an error, admit it, correct it, apologize for it. Be sincere.

Make sure to add the verbiage: The appraisal report was signed and delivered on May 7, 2016.

Why is the appraiser is the only one providing any transparency?

VaCAP Board
Image credit flickr - Christian Schnettelker
VaCAP Board

VaCAP Board

Coalition of individual appraisers working together to unite, promote and protect the collective interests of all appraisal professionals in Virginia; to promote needed changes in laws, rules, regulations, policies and standards affecting all appraisers in Virginia; to observe and report the actions of regulatory, legislative, oversight, and standards-setting entities of the Commonwealth.

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38 Responses

  1. Avatar Koma says:

    Thanks for the info. Already been doing this for a while now. Had one AMC ask me to remove my fee paid from the report and I said NO and gave them the # to the appraisal board of my state. Got paid. No longer have them as a client and that’s too bad for them. Gotta learn to stick up for yourself, it’s YOUR business!

  2. Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

    Note: This is absolutely unrelated to the article. AppraisalBuzz appears to be sliding slowly towards the sewer where it belongs. No comments posted on the 5 latest articles.

    Either appraisers have decided to boycott en masse or AppraisalBuzz decided to every appraiser who comments (not just Bill Johnson and myself). I can’t think of a bigger waste of time and money that a blog that refuses to allow freedom of speech.

    Perhaps Miss Trice’s AMC buddies will program their bots to post only praise for her site online daily.

    • Baggins - Blogging is my hobby. aka; X Baggins - Blogging is my hobby. aka; X says:

      I think it’s related, although perhaps only indirectly. LiveValMag also would censor posts which ran contrary to the pro amc positioning of the publisher. Of course having the publisher also being an amc owner provides for some clear as day conflict of interest with true journalistic principals. That seems to be the rule of the day; Journalists stage articles for cash, rather than reporting truthfully. Investigative journalism had been all but absent and thankfully it’s steaming forward with a wide set of independent alternative media outlets. I like to read Drudge daily, and that’s always interesting. But you can’t presume anything about the blog content until some time later though. Some of the platform approaches involve instant posting of noted comments, while others are set up where they don’t become visible until approved by site owners. So if site owner takes a day off or something like that, it can give false temporary indicator of no activity.  And with the bots and auto bot posters and bot writers out there, there seems to be a constant and oftentimes legitimate need for approving posts prior to instant publishing.

      But I do agree with one principal though; If you’re going to allow open blog posts, let all of them through as long as they do not violate rules and such. Censoring them based on position of the opinion is clearly a violation and offensive departure from our constitutional rights which relate to the first amendment. This is why I no longer post on the Appraisers Forum, because there is pretty clear instances of censorship ongoing. My last post there was one where I screen printed the denial of participation notice because I had adware blocker on. So they had re arranged the appearance of flash ads so they appear right over the box you type in, and simultaneously disallowed flash and ad block software users from participating. And they removed that thread in a half days time. If accepting advertisements is a condition of blogging, I’ll pass.

      This site auto posts comments to facecrook which is a huge negative in it’s own right, but at least the commentary here is viewable on Google, unlike these other blogs. Doubtful it has equal searching power through FB though, given their constant highlighting of friendly interests via directed bot crawlers and denial of searchability for key companies whom they support. Hence the reason why I never search on mobile devices, because there is a constant state of filtration with data if you use those proprietary technology platforms. I still like posting on WorkingRE now and then but they never did clean up the posting platform to work well with Mozilla. Personally, I’m quite surprised this site does not get more posting attention, given it’s pleasant structure, non denial of users like me whom use ad and flash block, and it’s ability to showcase current content via related start page or google searches.

      Be kind, rewind.

  3. Avatar liz says:

    I’m not an appraiser but came here to learn about the process and trials of the profession. I don’t see any transparancy at all with the appraiser I am stuck with in another state. That appraiser accepted an order one week after request. One week later has not scheduled. I understand this company takes 2 to 3 weeks for turn around time on top of that. What do I want to bet its a lousy appraisal… everything I have. Either do this work or lowball appraisal. I am so disgusted with this process I guess I wanted to vent from the buying side.

    • Baggins - Last living consumer advocate. Baggins - Last living consumer advocate. says:

      Hey liz. Service terms are focused on by everyone but the appraiser, and rightfully so. Too much gravity to the position and responsibility, these things take time. The important consumer position for you is to make sure your rate is locked and the total time to close does not exceed the rate lock. Time is irrelevant, so long as you do not lose the rate lock. You can request rush service from some lenders, but depending on their distribution process, that may be impossible, or the money may simply go to the amc instead so it’s a total waste. We appraisers stopped appealing to consumers quite some time ago in mortgage lending. The distributors hold all the cards these days. Rest assured that the time to complete is typically irrelevant regarding the appraisers performance. The time to be worried, is if that appraiser inspects in a day and returns the next. One would wonder why they were available so quickly, and what sorts of short cuts they took to report and deliver that fast. Back in the days we used to get 6 weeks standard.  h, the good old days when quality valuation was prioritized above expedient service. Sure do miss the good old days.

      Just make sure the person who inspected the unit is the same person who signs the report. People often judge the appraisal on $ result, but that’s not correct either. The appraiser is the only non advocate in the process, nearly everyone else runs commission based and is subsequently a natural advocate for securing the customer and closing the deal. Remember, the home is not truly yours, until you stop refinancing and pay off the loan. If you ask me, there are entirely too many appraisal requests these days. People really should get shorter term loans for everything else not related to the financing of the home itself. Hope you’re getting a better rate and not rolling in any debt over a 30 year amortized schedule. If possible, try to refinance to a 15 instead to build equity faster, get a lower rate, and save a significant amount in cash equivalent payments over term. 

      Thanks for stopping by, and please do let us know what happens.

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      America’s first astronaut’s was once asked by a reporter what he thought about while waiting to lift off.

      His response:

      “I thought about the fact that I was sitting atop of the most complex machine ever built with every component being built by the lowest bidder”.

      Believe it or not you have alot in common with Alan Shepard Liz. Since 2009 appraisal orders are being farmed out to the lowest bidder with the fastest trigger finger. The best appraisers fled the industry long ago when they were forced to surrender 1/2 their fees to bank owned AMCs (appraisal management companies). Unfortunately, buyers and sellers are now stuck with the bad and the worst for the most part.

  4. Baggins - Last living consumer advocate. Baggins - Last living consumer advocate. says:

    Oh yes, the last living consumer advocate remark is a sort of inside joke. Appraisers are held to a non advocacy position, but that should not stop them from giving good anecdotal information if that may benefit the persons they’re speaking with. If you can’t talk to an appraiser about the intricacies of valuation and get unbiased information on mortgage lending, who then could you speak with? If in doubt, utilize your consumer position to your advantage and shop around for best terms. Your best landing place is a credit union who won’t sell your note, commonly refereed to as ‘in house servicing’. Even better is to escape mortgage lending entirely with true home ownership. The big secret in this industry is that if a lender knows you could get better terms elsewhere, but their brokerage is unable to offer that, there is a constant rule; never tell and try your damnedest to retain the customer anyways. Lenders position as if slow appraisal service is a problem. They pressure appraisers for quicker turn times. Why? So the customer does not have a spare second to think twice.

  5. Avatar liz says:

    I can’t expect a quick turn around I got that part… but what about a show and date for scheduling? I find it very difficult to believe this appraisal can’t even be scheduled.

    Just so you know, yes I am dealing with an AMC, which I have been lucky enough to never know about before. I can tell you up front I don’t trust them already. Ignoring the customer or client, depending on what you guys call us and the lender, is not a good starting point.

    I’ve checked pending listings and there simply aren’t that many in the county.

    So, I can’t help but wonder about the AMC itself. Is it connected to my lender in any way? Would they tell me if I ask? Is the AMC used as an excuse to deny mortgages to people not deemed appropriate but for reasons of actual discrimination. I am 55 and have lyme disease so I don’t work. I do have a hefty down payment. I am seeking conventional financing at 20 down 80 financed. I recently owner financed a property for 3 years with a balloon and at that time, plan to pay this loan off totally…. but am I worth the risk? or could I possibly be being discriminated against?

    My ethnicity is white but listen up fellows, discrimination is very alive and well in America…….. where ever America actually is these days.

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      AMCs are simply a required evil that was shoved down appraisers’ throats in 2009. Over 80% of all appraisal orders now go through AMCs. Banks used Andrew Cuomo to pull off what I refer to as the crime of the century. Cuomo was attorney general of NY at the time and banks paid him to blackmail FNMA into signing off on what became HVCC. Once the deal was done banks essentially shut down their only competitor: Mortgage Brokers. More importantly however banks owned most of the AMCs so billions of dollars in appraisal fees (50% to 60% of each fee) began to pour into the pockets of banks via their AMC subsidiaries. HVCC has since morphed into other entities over the last 7 years but it remains alive and well. Banks in the mean time have probably reaped at least 100 billion from the pockets of appraisers since 2009. In exchange for his dirty deed Andrew Cuomo was given a blank check by banks to win the NY governor’s chair. To make matters worse, banks continue to defy Truth In Lending laws by lying to borrowers on their HUD-1 sheet. Your HUD-1 will tell you the appraisal fee is $700 or so, leading you to believe the appraiser is getting the full fee. In reality, your slow ass appraiser is likely being paid $250 ($100 less than he was making prior to 2009). The remainder will end up in the AMC’s and likely a bank’s pocket.

      If I were you I would ask the banker to cancel the loan application and go elsewhere for the loan. Tell them in advance you refuse to borrow from a lender that uses the services of an appraisal management company.

      Best of luck in dealing with this pathetic industry Liz.

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      P.S. I wouldn’t worry about discrimination in this case (black or white). These guys only see green when they look at you.

  6. Avatar liz says:

    Well you guys have opened my eyes wide open. I am very familiar with Cuomo and his nasty ways with banks and money in general.

    I do believe I am going to go elsewhere. The seller is the biggest loser. Here he is messing around thinking this mortgage company is going to fund this loan. I keep saying for whatever reason, I am tired and I can’t see this actually happening with the hold up on nothing more than an appraiser.

    Thanks to all of you for your input. You made my decision much easier.

    I believe I am going to look for an owner finance or something I can pay for in cash. Fortunately, I am able to buy a trailer or something in cash. Meanwhile I have messed around trying to get a loan costing myself money.

    If I loose a grand in earnest money so be it but it will be on the bank’s head. I do have a mouth and I can spread the joy~!

    I do want to add I had a wonderful appraiser in South Carolina when I sold my parents house. He was on the money, on time, timely report. I could not have asked for better. I actually ended up getting more than his appraisal since I owner financed but he really helped me set a realistic honest price.

    I have respect for you people on this board. It is obvious you care about your profession.

    And tomorrow……. I got lots of questions for the bank (ba hahahahaha). They think all their customers are dumb greenbacks…….. not so fast bankers. Some of us network and think!!

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      If you really like the home and think it’s a good deal…threaten to walk away.  I feel sure they will reassign it to a 24 hour appraiser.  If it doesn’t appraise…it’s even better for you since you’ll get your money back.  I wouldn’t leave the earnest money on the table though unless you’re forced to do so.

      Something else that you may want to consider if you can find a great deal is a lease option.  You’ll have a place to live and the first chance at buying it.  Include a clause stating that you have the right to assign the option and you’ll have the right to flip the option to make money (assuming that you decide not to buy it).  By flipping the option on the property you have the ability to profit from it without ever paying those outrageous closing costs and property taxes.  Options are by far the best investment vehicle in the world in my opinion if you find the right property.  Builders use them, investors use them, and developers most certainly use them.  Just something else to consider.

      Thomas Lucier has a great book out on Real Estate Options if you can locate it in the local library or bookstore.

  7. Avatar liz says:

    O thank you thank you for advice!!!

  8. Avatar liz says:

    I am so thankful to have found your forum and the article I initially commented on. I want you guys to know you helped me more than you can imagine. I wrote a nice email to the bank and told them I was on brink of throwing up my hands and walking away from contract. Appraiser will be doing his or her thing tonight. Additionally, that 2 to 3 week turn around time turned into 3 days.

    Someone said, “they will do a 24 hour appraisal”. You were absolutely spot on.

    But the bank refuses to disclose who has interests in the AMC!!!  Fancy that now~! That tells me everything I wanted to know .

    I want to you all to know I agree that AMC’s are one of the worst ideas ever. Its a travesty to your profession.  But know this, it’s just all still a part of the plan to take over “the world” and “all money”. We all know that is what everything is about these days. He who has the biggest pile right?

    I do plan to make a complaint after the loan is complete to the Real Estate Board regarding non disclosure of this AMC. They tried to rattle me up… but they got them a whole bunch of shaking to do next! And I am good for my word, in fact better than any bank, I promise!!

    Again… thanks to each of you that had input. I am very grateful for your professional opinions. I am so sorry your profession is being taken over and ruined. Go find something else to do. Let the entire mess stew in its own juices. Greed will get em in trouble every single time. Remember that.

    Thanks again!!

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      I hope that everything works out for you and you get your house. I feel sure that buyers have a right to know the name of the AMC that’s sucking them (and their appraiser) dry.

  9. Avatar liz says:

    I found out my AMC is Equity Solutions USA. I found it to be registered as a foreign for profit business. I still want to know who owns this business though. I will figure out how to find out eventually.

    I also thank you for introducing me to lease purchase with option. Wow  yes that is a way to make money for sure. I plan to get that book.

    You guys are great. Thanks so much for all the info!!

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      Equity Solutions USA

      Equity Solutions LinkedIn

      Privately owned company operating in all 50 states and also does title work.

      11-50 Employees

      My guess: Attorney owned since they also do title work

      A quick search of the Tennessee Secretary Of State website (or whatever they call it in Tennessee) should reveal the owner(s) rather quickly.

      Best Of Luck

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      Here is the president of your AMC:

      Equity Solutions USA is indeed a foreign company to Tennessee but originates in Mississippi where the president lives.

      This president of this AMC is yet another Joan Trice (an ex appraiser who joined the enemy when things got tough).

    • Avatar KenQ says:

      Liz, make sure you don’t end up paying Equity Solutions USA (ESUSA) AMC fees. You should only be responsible for the appraisal fee (fee the appraiser charges to provide an appraisal), NOT the AMC fee. AMCs provide a service for the lender and bring nothing to the table for the consumers and the appraisers. They are paper pushers and nothing more. So find out how much the appraiser was paid and tell the lender that you will only pay that portion and nothing more.

      Here is how much ESUSA normally pays appraisers (this was posted by another appraiser):

      To those that work with Equity Solutions (EUSA) I wanted to share an exchange I had with them from yesterday…

      They sent an order in my area for $330 less $10 uplodad fee, so a net $320. We countered with $385. We wrote them (very politely) explaining how this is reasonable and customary based on our state board fee study. We also reminded that that the current AMC laws in our state require these types of fees or the AMC could be investigated or fined. We always remind AMC’s of the new laws since many don’t know they exist.

      The COO, Mike Moore, wrote me back and this is his reponse: As you are likely aware, the GA state fee survey was performed in an effort to be a guide and AMC’s have the permission to use it as a “presumption of compliance” however, we are not obligated to use the fees recommended if we have our own established fee schedule. If you are not interested in the assignment, please let us know but I will respectfully request that you not attempt to threaten us again.

      Well I did not take very kindly to that response. He basically said they will offer whatever fee they wish, regardless of what is reasonable and customary, and then told me to quit pushing the issue by accusing me of threatening them. To me that was a dick move and not how business partners should operate.

      My response…
      No threat was implied. It was actually a point of education in case you were not aware of our laws. What was said was your fee offered was below what is established by our state. It was actually a polite message that was sent back. But given the tone of your response and then cancelling the request because we asked to be paid fairly for the assignment, we can see that you do not wish to have a good business relationship. In light of that I will turn over the order to our state and let them work with you to determine if what your company is offering follows the AMC laws of our state. We will share your response though with our peers in this market so they can understand how the appraiser is responded to should they ask to be paid fairly. All of this could have been avoided just by paying a reasonable and customary fee in the first place. Well, and responding in a polite way. That always goes a long way.

      Do I lose them as a client, sure, and I am OK with that. I encourage all of you to stop letting these AMC’s run rough shod over your business. Stand up for yourself against the AMC bullies that think they own you. They don’t and you owe it to yourself.

  10. Avatar liz says:

    Foreign owned for profit entity……… interesting huh?

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      Foreign as in the original company is located in a different state.  Tennessee says it’s located in Mississippi and has the president’s (now CEO) address listed in Mississippi.  Yet the Pres/CEO’s linkedin account says he’s in Detroit.

      God help the poor appraiser if should they decide to stiff him on payment (after they already collected from you).  He’ll need to hire the FBI & CIA to track down the REAL headquarters of that outfit.  That’s precisely the type of games that these companies play too.  They do their best to hide, betting that the appraiser will eventually give up on collecting their fee.  Then after they’ll squirreled away $10,000,000 or more they hide it declare bankruptcy, with several million more in their bunker that was owed to appraisers.  We’ve all seen this happen time and time again over the last few years.

  11. Avatar liz says:

    No Retired Appraiser, I have searched this AMC out. I do know how to follow this money . I understand how to use EDGAR at the SEC and not many people have a clue what that is.

    Foreign in this case, means OFF SHORE. When I hear  that, first thing I think  is someone like Mitt Romney. hahahahha

    Well,  it’s probably not Warren Buffett who actually is the beneficial owner of Clayton Homes, by the way as well as Clayton’s financing company and insurer. Interesting huh? Not many people know that but you can look that up.

    I have not ever put effort into figuring out how to take apart a foreign company online to see who owns it though.  So for the better sake of the argument of who owns Equity Solutions, my best educated guess is some very large banks. But again, that is an educated guess only.

    O how I would love to know now though.

    Sir you opened my eyes to more of a pattern I have been following for years now. Everything in America is a big secret. And every citizen in America suffers financially as a result.

    But I am sad that your profession like so many before it, has been taken down to bare bones and new blood.  Be happy you are older, retired and not having this battle to do deal with  are the only words of my wisdom for you.

    But yes to when this entity has gotten satisfied, it will bankrupt itself and go away. I bet as we speak the next AMC is already in the formation stage. Kinda like cells in a petri dish.

    I was formerly a cardiac cath lab RN . I watched as health care delivery was taken apart. Now you have insurance on one hand and a dysfunctional over priced delivery system on the other. But I got Lyme disease over 40 + years ago and was misdiagnosed for well over 40 years. I know all too well how things don’t work.

    Home ownership is going to become a thing of the past in the USA. But I believe the USA is a thing of the past and none of us have accepted that part yet.

    Sir, you are good at your game though. It’s fun talking with you and exchanging information. I really do appreciate your input to help resolve my situation.

    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Please do not be a defeatist. It is unamerican to posture weak, as we have the superior republic democratic system which citizens of the world still to this day seek to emulate, and such talking points which characterize us as weak are largely the products of liberal media with anti American interests at heart. America lives on in me, and that is enough. Perhaps if you better cultivate a spirit of 1776 and place all hopes on liberty, you too can rise to the ranks of respectable sovereign citizens who have no king, and need no king here on earth. Home ownership will remain as the seat of our liberties for generations to come, if the members of this republic can resist the temptation of debt and unnecessary credit. All that it takes to be a land owner, is to refuse debt. All that it takes to refuse credit, is to not need credit in the first place. Learn the lessons of the past, or be condemned to repeat them.

      For the record, when a consumer borrows money from a lender, the consumer has practically no control and the lender calls the shots all the way until the final payment is received.

      Oh you want a loan? I have your loan

  12. Baggins Baggins says:

    Don’t make the mistake of jeopardizing your citizen loan, for an issue with workers in an industry which you do not participate in.  Eyes on the prize for borrowers;  Acquire loan, manage loan responsibly, eventually eliminate debt. Tell lender to not let the door hit them on the way out, then slam door and refuse debt in the future. These issues are not your issues Liz, although appraisers are typically desperate for an outlet to vent, since industry heads fail to listen.

    But hell, if appraisers thought lenders were friendly, they are completely ignorant of the history of the United States which led to the Declaration of Independence in the first place. You can’t fix stupid that way, and lenders capitalize on that every day of the week.

    Eyes on the prize for consumers. Acquire loan, attain house, eliminate debt, refuse future debt. It’s not rocket science, but does take a carefully structured financial game plan. Or keep refinancing and be a slave to debt. That’s what the advocacy based appraiser crew would cheerlead for, more appraisal orders. I want to see a dramatic reduction in appraisal request volume, but sadly that is unlikely to happen. When the refried refinances dry up, there will be a renewed surplus of short sales and reo order requests. Appraisers who lived high on the hog today and crawled under the sheets with lenders will tomorrow rue the day. True story. History repeats itself all the time that way.

    Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies

  13. Avatar liz says:

    Amen and Amen to all of that Baggins. Here is my update again….. Appraisal done Friday at 6 pm. Turned in on Monday. Today is Wednesday and I have gotten no call from the lender, bank, no one. So I called my loan originator who seems to be the most honest of the crowd. Yes appraisal came in… it was sent back. The appraiser has 24 hours to amend.

    Now don’t get me wrong, but don’t I too have a right to know why the report is being sent back for a re do? Is it value? Bank said it could be pictures weren’t clear, or i’s not dotted and t’s not crossed and I call BS.

    I believe the appraisal came in low. I also know the seller won’t give a dime off. So, after a 3 plus week wait, I get the proverbial boot. Again, that is what I am thinking. I will post eventually if I get let in the loop to figure out what is going on with MY MORTGAGE.

    And Baggins, I do understand about being a debt slave. I absolutely do. My plan if this falls through is to do exactly what I probably should have done to begin with…. go buy a $30,000.00 mobile home and write a check. Never lived in one before. Hate the thought, but no payments is sounding ever more appealing right now.

    I won’t be over my head with what I have offer on. In fact, I believe with about $15,000 invest I can clean up on this sweet property. Either with a rental or a sale with a rental unit, or inlaw cottage. I am certain since it is mountain property I won’t be spending the rest of my life there.

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      No worries yet Liz. Every appraisal order via AMC requires an “amend”. That’s a short way of saying “we’re asking the appraiser to rewrite 1/2 of what the appraiser has already stated via an amendment because our high school appraisal reviewers can’t read reports that well.”

      Hang in there, the appraiser is just now attempting to jump through their first flaming hoop. The remaining process truly is a survival game. After that the appraiser gets to play “will they pay or won’t they? (even though the AMC already has your money).

      Their only showing you the 3rd level of Hell. Your appraiser will have the opportunity to visit the 9th level.

    • Baggins Baggins says:

      You know, it’s give or take. Balance of monthly output, available resources, and tolerable choice of living environments or not. There is no right answer, because each persons scenario is different. You can get a brand new 2k sq ft double wide delivered and set down certified as real property for about 130-160k depending on model choice. You just need the land to go with it.

      You’re reading entirely too much into the process at this point and I think it’s likely counter productive to your personal interests to delve this far down into the details of this industry. Remember;  Eyes on the prize. The reason you engaged is for your personal mortgage. Your responsibility begins and ends there, don’t take it personally.

      There is a reason retired appraiser is retired appraiser. He could not take the heat, and got out of the kitchen. This business is a grinder and it’s not for everyone. You do not have the position to state ‘my mortgage’. You are the mortgagor and the lender is the mortgagee. You’re seeking credit and that’s all there is to it. Be careful what you wish for.

      Per your other questions below, holding up the mortgage is about process compliance, and the process is steeped in bureaucracy. Nothing new, but seems new to each individual who is sent through this meat grinder we call the mortgage lending industry. If you want a solution, bail on the brokerage and line something up through the credit union instead. It really is that simple, but all loans retain right of refusal and right of transfer to GSE’s. You can’t win as a consumer, as long as you are consuming mortgage products. Simple to understand. The mortgage is debt, and the underwriting process is as detailed as the size of the mortgage amount. You don’t have perspective, just wait till you try to run a million dollar loan on uninsurable fire hazard mountain mansion property. Ha!

      Take it easy, take a break, be patient and make informed consumer decisions for your best interest. It’s a pure waste of your time to participate in the appraiser argument as an outsider, you’re just stressing over red tape. Remember that it comes down to signing. Until that very moment in time you can still walk away. Spend your time up until that point wisely, and make sure you’re making the best consumer decision for you personally. Ignore all the voices in the air, and focus on your own financial security.

      • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

        I didn’t retire. I quit at age 48. I refused to participate in extortion which is precisely what HVCC boiled down to. This had nothing to do with “the heat in the kitchen”. It had everything to do with ethics and intelligence however.

        When they cut your paycheck in half per order…you quit.

        When they require $150 kickbacks in exchange for orders…you quit.

        When they tell you that your client list of 200+ lenders is worthless overnight…you quit and tell them to precisely what to suck on.

        Ethics & Intelligence

        Some have it…but most throw both out the window when it comes down to putting food on the table or compromising.

      • Baggins Baggins says:

        Yeah retired, I do understand. You’re just an easy target for jabs, with the get angry stay angry sort of approach. Or the alternative of course; Up charge to the point you can be assured there is no unethical motivation behind assigning you the order, aka desperation end of the line placement. Reasons why I’ve always maintained around 400 or better fees all these years later. I like to refer to discounting for work orders as bribing for dollars. Junk fees are apparently legal again. Who knew?

  14. Avatar liz says:

    That actually makes me feel  bad too Retired Appraiser. I am being honest here. I honestly have watched professions get “eaten” as I call it. Its so unfair.

    I really would like to know what I can do to help call attention to this. I already have a few plans. If I had known I would have been dealing with a foreign for profit business managing my appraiser, I wouldn’t have agreed to proceed with this lender for one. How about transparency like the title of this article or disclosure, which appears to be a key word for lending. Neither present in this transaction.

    I don’t anymore understand what appraisers go through than you guys understand implanting a stent in the cardiac cath lab. That was my profession as a Registered Nurse.

    I know that one error would land me in front of a review board too.  Not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth would too.

    But changing gears here… let’s go back to 2008. It wasn’t just mortgages and banks. Let’s quickly run through a few things people’s selective memory lets them forget ok.

    First came Enron. Boom. Gone. Remember?

    Then Tyco, remember that one?  How about Global Crossing? Go back and look…. I promise I am shedding brighter light for you here.

    Those huge companies had the first problems. Then along came banking issues and mortgages. And I say how convenient.

    Because the truth of that matter remains to be known at this point in time. You have a piece, I have a piece, neither hand is communicating with the other.

    The truth long story short, is the financial world fell in. Appraisals had little to do with your crisis. Capital did. And that is because every single business I mentioned and every single bank and every single insurance company have one beneficial owner. Remember AIG? There are many things to try to stack up in your head.

    And there are other things that never ever got discussed much less fixed. You have to trust me on this one. Cause I know something you don’t. Yes indeed.

    So now fast forward back to my current issue and tell me again, how does holding up my mortgage support the industry? What purpose does it serve to involve a foreign for profit biz in this mix?

    Think gentlemen. Use what God put between your ears…… seriously.  You will be hard pressed to help me understand what this elementary process is all about. Stalling is the only thing I can come up with. What benefit does that have on the real estate industry? the Banking industry?

    Who benefits? And where does the money trail lead………

    Aren’t you guys glad I came along to give you a real live discussion!!!!!  I really do know something you don’t. It created a world of hurt for me because I know it too. Heard of stalking? Well, I got the up close and personal version of that and a whole lot more harassment. Unfortunately your profession got dinged as vulnerable. I bet no one was paying attention at the time. The captain was asleep at the wheel……. Only you guys hold those answers but remember, no entity in the good ole US of A was an island.

  15. Avatar liz says:

    Well said and good advice. Thanks.

    Appraisal is finally in my hands. Amount is 50 bucks over agreed to sales price LOL! So hopefully that will work. I am very happy appraiser saw fit to make no comment over small things that need to be repaired. They are on a very long list as no property is perfect right away. Well, if I had several million to spend maybe… but that is not the case.

    I have financed two other homes. Never been through anything like this though. I honestly don’t believe people are supposed to be buying houses now with all the new rules.

    I’m back to underwriting. I am debt free until signing the mortgage. I do know Cash is King. I also know it is very difficult to hold onto Cash in today’s world and that’s not because of spending habits. I rarely shop and when I do it is for things I must have, needs.

    I will be so satisfied to have a place to lay my head soon though. It’s been a while. This couch and dinner ( not bed and breakfast) is old at this point. I had no clue how long this process was really going to take. In another week, I ought to be good and in debt LOL

    Thanks again to all of you for a great learning experience. I will try to share snippets of knowledge learned here with friends!

  16. Baggins - eco concious in a big damned truck. Baggins - eco concious in a big damned truck. says:

    Awesome, great news Liz. You know;  eyes on the prize.

    The old deal with a dollar saved today is more than a dollar tomorrow is yesterdays news. Negative rates are coming. Purchase what you can now, hedge purchase non perishables, and stay ahead of upcoming rampant inflation as well as possible. I’ve seen some really cool deals with solar lately where people are effectively achieving goal zero energy use and costs. I’d really love to get into that, but the up front cost is tremendous and rebates are often key to successful application. So I paid a hundred and twenty bucks for an aa battery goal zero solar multi use charger deal on amazon. It’s pocket sized, but now I am officially a solar user. If the lights go out, I’ll be able to power a camp battery lantern. Got to start somewhere. Ha!

    Don’t forget your Berkey gravity filter with both black and white filter elements. Better than any bottled water, and filters last a single person well over a year, even if using for all cooking water like boiling water, teas, ice, and everything in between. Compliment with reverse ionization filter under sink, and you’re in business with clean water. Plant an apple tree and raspberry bush. We’re growing 14 ft gargantuan sunflowers this year and those bad boys are taking off, a nice line of them inside the fence line. Do everything possible to keep the land working for you instead of against you. Throw the roundup in the trash can, so you don’t end up with a tumor and toxify the soils.

    This thread was unusual for the appraisers blogs and is reminiscent of the ‘ask an appraiser’ thread on the appraisers forum (.com). There is a pointed place for non appraiser questions, and that is it, if you have other concerns. No less than a dozen appraisers will immediately answer your questions over there and it’s a forum style site where you can post new topics and seek answers after a simple registration process.

    Retired, you know I’m just tit for tat and messing with you right? Don’t quit on me just yet. LOL! I need a friend, because this appraisal deal is a lonely existence that nobody can relate to. Geesh! I’m just joking.  You guys have a good one.

  17. Avatar liz says:

    You are speaking my language, solar. I want the 35 K generating station. Already ahead of you on learning to can, garden, even own a mantis tiller! Will try the other forum too. You guys made my week. That’s for sure.

    Lots of places are lonely though. Not just retired appraisers!!

    My place is 1.6 acres, hidden from view on it’s own little mountain top. Only one vacation rental way up yonder in view. Small almost tiny house with only one window, pella sliding doors. 1 mile long right of way to property, then gate, then double circle driveways. First layer is gym and 2 story building that is a to be guest cottage. Upper level house… 784 sq feet, 2 beds 1 bath. Minimal lifestyle at hand. Quilting to take priority. Yep great minds think alike.


  18. Avatar liz says:

    My dad was the poster guy for ethics. He was the class that never was at the Citadel, which is class of 47. You are speaking my language here.

    Sad to hear though. The world has changed. Take this article for instance……. Transparency. I just have to say huh? where? when? Nah none of that is in order.

    It is refreshing to hear someone else still has values my friend.

  19. Avatar liz says:

    Hi Guys,

    I wanted to update you all on the status of my appraisal and home purchase.

    Please don’t be surprised that I walked away from the lender!

    I do not think the problem is with “the” appraiser but possibly that the foreign owned AMC belongs to the lender. A friend of mine is a mortgage broker in another state than where I am currently attempting to buy. He told me based on all I told him that I was with a “slack and sorry” lender. I keep feeling “Countrywide” in my gut with regard to the lender.

    At any rate, I wanted to tell you the appraisal went back for re dos twice. I still don’t understand if the lender can not speak with the appraiser, how the appraiser knows what the lender wants them to do when they request a ‘re do’.

    It may interest you to know my mortgage broker friend said that appraisals should have more than two comps as well. My appraisal only had two comps. And yes there is plenty of sold property however it is more than six months past sale. There are a fair amount of properties in the price range for sale in the area though.

    So, I decided to take my money elsewhere. The lender came back with some lame offers but allowed me to walk away. Flat out, with a credit score of over 800, more than $50,000.00 in cash, and no debt, no one wants to finance a house for me.

    I suppose along the way, I lost the right to buy a home in the United States of America. Imagine that, where home ownership is the American dream right? Right?

    But no I did not cry…… I moved into buying property and will place an upgraded mobile on it. LOL

    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      Don’t despair Liz. Owning a home was once one of the best investments that a person could make. I’ve come to the conclusion that owning a home is now an poor to average investment…at best. There are certainly investments and (or) business opportunities out there that can provide you with a better return on your money than a home’s (3-5 percent).

      I admire anyone with the guts to tell a bank or mortgage company where to shove their loan.

      Best of luck to you in wherever you land.

  20. VaCAP is 100% RIGHT!

    ALL of us are damned fools IF we merely replace an already uploaded form appraisal with another ‘corrected’ version. My state does not consider these to be the same reports. Think about that.

    They look at it as report #1; and report #2 (or #3 as the case may be).

    I have personally seen cases in which they tried to hold the appraiser at fault because the first appraisal report had an error.  A simple error can lead to competency charges; as well as alleged violations of SR1 and SR 2.  No matter that the appraiser corrected the purported error in a second version.

    California; Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey and Texas each appear to be more than willing to hang appraisers over minor technical oversights or omissions. Nowhere in their USPAP compliance criteria is any thought given to what constitutes compliance with USPAP in the first place (hint: What ones peers would do in similar circumstances).

    Now if ANY allowable or otherwise ‘correction’ is deemed appropriate by an appraiser, I strongly encourage the suggest of VaCAP be followed. No matter how routine it appears to be! Every uploaded report is retained in FNMA’s system if an SSR was created.

    Even something as simple as an address correction warrants a separate addendum cover page explaining that THIS report supersedes and replaces any and all prior iterations of he same report, and that it also renders such prior versions null and void. Definitely include the verbiage recommended by VaCAP as well.


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Transparency… Where is it?

by VaCAP Board time to read: 2 min