New URAR Redesign Spec Released

New URAR Redesign Spec Released. 

The Appraisal Forms & UAD Redesign Spec has been released and the current forms are being retired. This means that appraisers will no longer be using individual forms for each property type, but instead will have to use a single dataset with output varying based on property characteristics. If you want to get an idea of what this looks like, take a look at Appendix D-1 of the spec document. The new URAR form is going to be used for all types of properties as well as hybrid & traditional appraisals. It is important to note that this redesign requires significantly more data gathering than before – such as individual component’s level depreciation information. The Property Data Collectors are going to have more work on their hands gathering data in order for them to collect their $20 fee!

All jokes aside though, it appears that this is another attempt by Fannie Mae to push out experienced licensed appraisers by making their form more cumbersome and time-consuming while simultaneously making options such as unlicensed untrained Property Data Collectors and bad Automated Valuation Models more attractive alternatives. This could be potentially disastrous for both consumers and professional appraisers alike, since these alternative methods lack accuracy when compared with traditional property valuation techniques used by qualified professionals in our industry.

The GSE’s may already begin testing out this new spec or plan on doing so soon; however, there is currently no information regarding when they plan on implementing it into production yet – though past experience suggests late 2024 or 2025 would be realistic deadlines based on previous implementations such as UAD.

UAD and Forms Redesign Initiative FAQs

Q6. How will the new UAD help address bias in appraisals?

Capturing more property and market information as objective data points, using less free-form commentary, will reduce subjectivity and thus lessen the risk of bias in the appraisal.

Q26. Will there be a 1004MC?

No, there will not be a 1004MC (Market Conditions Addendum). There will be a market section in the new URAR that enables appraisers to expand on the market conditions.

Q34. Will the new dataset be cloud-based (online only), or will software vendors be able to provide programs for the appraisers?

Software vendors will still provide appraisal software for the appraiser to collect, analyze, and report data related to the collateral and render the URAR. Where the data resides is not part of the scope for the UAD and URAR redesign initiative.

Q35. Will appraisers be able to use legacy appraisal data to populate a new appraisal report (compliant with the updated UAD)?

The GSEs would like for appraisers to have the ability to use their legacy data to assist in the completion of future appraisals; however, the ability to do so will depend on the functionality of the software used by the appraiser.

 

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72 Responses

  1. Baggins Baggins says:

    (Woody no like my post, fine, I’ll just take it off the board. Why would anyone want to hear what an appraiser thinks about appraisal form details anyways. One liners, why even bother.)

    ‘Appraisal modernization’, they just threw decades of effort away and decided to start over, so the little fields would fit better on their silly little mobile device screens. They skipped the most fundamental basics. There is no net/gross percent indicators and the grid is in a hundred different places. Idiots.

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  2. Avatar Woody Fincham says:

    Oh no, change is coming. Let’s get upset.

    5
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Thanks Woody. You like the new form and are looking forward to using this? You won’t miss net gross adjustment indicators? You believe this will help you be more efficient? You know what, I think they should redesign the form every two years, to be on the safe side of progress.

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      • Avatar Woody Fincham says:

        I try to live by the mantra of not worrying about things until they’re worth worrying about. Yes this is gonna be a change, yes, it’s going to require a learning curve, and yes, it’s going to be difficult for many people. But the current format that we’re using is horrible. Nothing has weakened the appraisal profession more than the forms. They’re not written to the appraisal process, they’re written to mortgage underwriting, and it doesn’t really allow an appraiser to appraise. It lends to just filling out a form. I am looking forward to the expanding capabilities of each of the sections, so that if I need to write five or six paragraphs for the highest and best use analysis, I can do that without having to jump to an addenda. And I guess I’m not as worried about it is I don’t do as much lending work as many appraisers do. And when I am working in the lending space, I’m usually working on luxury or high-end property, and I generally just write a narrative and use the form as an executive summary. I’m also not working for the cheapest clients out there and I think that’s the biggest rub. Many appraisers wanna take the cheapest fees that they can, and do the least amount of work that they can. It’s just a downward spiral. So I’m not looking forward to it, but I am receptive and accepting of the change because it doesn’t matter what I want them to do or not want them to do if they’re gonna do it anyway.

        1
        • Avatar ej says:

          I don’t see how this is modernization of the appraisal process either. It seems like they just want more data to feed their automated valuation models, but they don’t care about the quality or accuracy of the data. They’re using untrained people to do the inspections, and they’re paying them peanuts. How can that be good for anyone? And then, TAF (in cooperation with the Appraisal Institute) wants to certify some form-fillers with no real appraisal skills or experience. This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

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        • Avatar Les says:

          Why not just write this response the first time instead of childishly poking fun at those of us who may have issues with this new form? It would have made you look better to your peers.

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          • Les, you do you and I’ll do me. But thanks for your insight. I will try to compose myself because someone doesn’t like my post. Change is coming, embrace it or don’t. We study change for a living yet when change comes to our field, we roll up in ball and proclaim that the sky is falling. A couple decades in and it’s the same old song and dance. For those that dislike what the GSEs are doing, stop doing GSE work. It is a choice.

            0
            • Avatar Mark Page says:

              It’s not change that is resisted. It’s meaningless change that proposes to strengthen the valuation process while in reality inhibiting the input of the very professionals it proports to assist. Change is neither good nor bad. It is the direction the change takes that determines that. If one cannot see that this is a giant step in the direction to remove appraisers from the appraisal process then one is blind.

              7
  3. Avatar Chuck Minzenberger, SRA says:

    GIGO – as if a property data collector will know the expected economic life of any specific component, collecting more useless data points will not make a garbage report more credible. I like the idea of having one ‘form’ – its not a form at all, rather a format, its a database like the “forms” are now, it would be nice as a user to be able to arrange the fields to match my workflow, if allowed I am sure this is possible. Anyone that has built a database knows exactly what I’m talking about.

    6
  4. This is a cross between a Relocation Appraisal and an Inspection report. Liability issues? Some things I like, some I just don’t. Too damn busy! I was hoping that if they were using one form for everything it might be more streamlined.. What in the world was I thinking???

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    • Avatar Chuck Minzenberger, SRA says:

      I believe once its rolled out you select the property type and all the unrelated fields disappear, at least that’s my hope and understanding.

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      • Baggins Baggins says:

        How does that process occur, if printing out the form on paper? Disappearing pages like Houdini? Where did the net/gross indicators go?

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  5. Avatar More Work Higher Fees says:

    My suggestion is the new form must allow a protected Appraisers signature and form type since this is slated to be a Universal form. The form should not be manipulated or cloned by anyone. Not allow a higher quality Full Appraisal to be downgraded to a Hybrid on the same form this appraiser signs by anyone with the AMCs or GSEs. Right now Hybrids ordered through various AMCs want/require appraisers signatures as part of the appraisers Portal Profile. No appraiser who wants to protect their liability should ever provide their signature as a requirement of a form type or valuation product- Never!! If you dont know this already you need to read the predatory service agreements the AMCs require. Those who know- list the names here like Valigent etc. wanting appraisers signatures to join their panel. The potential for fraud must be locked so a signature and form type cannot be changed after submission. The appraisers must demand it through comments to Fannie/Freddie and software companies must build in Form & signature security. Demand the tools like Net/Gross adjustments that are part of good comp & reconciliation analysis you’re being QC for. This will require lender oversight for C& R fees nobody wants to talk about now!

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  6. Avatar That Scott Guy says:

    Did the 1004 need to be redone? Absolutely, no question.

    If that sample form is the new 1004, it was put together by 3rd graders and not appraisers.

    It’s a POS clearly designed for anyone but the appraiser.

    When they roll this out, I will give them what they want….one less field appraiser.

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  7. Avatar Cindy Bagwell says:

    So as licensed professionals we will become form fillers. Nice

    2
  8. Avatar jaydee says:

    Refuse to participate in this fiasco. No one asked appraisers to change the form, you know the men and women who are responsible for the value(s).

    6
  9. Scott Taylor on Facebook Scott Taylor on Facebook says:

    The hybrid appraisal might be the wave of the future. I would not mind not having to drive for about three hours like I will today for my inspections. It will be great until I lose my license as the data or pictures sent to me by the data collectors is total crap and I have the same liability. The next two to three years should be very interesting as they push out the 1004 appraisal process as we know it. But I have been saying the same thing for the last 10 years or more and I am still here typing away.

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  10. Annie Chayne on Facebook Annie Chayne on Facebook says:

    How things change.

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  11. Heidi Ford on Facebook Heidi Ford on Facebook says:

    It’s amazing how much more data they want in these forms, and the thought it going to cost them less….I just don’t see how it is going to happen. And a data collector can decide H&BU issue? It all looks like it was devised by some 22 year old with a data analytics degree and no common sense, advised by a greedy AMC executive.

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  12. Baggins Baggins says:

    Oh hell, repost my original post I had edited. Why not. If this is a fair sampling of the appraisers response to the new form, looks like 9 out of 10 appraisers think this is a poorly conceived poorly developed effort.

    Where is the net/gross percent indicators? Did they miss the garage dollar amount adjustment column? This is unreadable, are appraisers to scroll through 2 different pages and 10 columns to review grid work? One presumes that jumps to 4 total pages and 20 different columns if you have more than 3 comps. Can we get all that in a single column line like, perhaps, the current form? Where is my quick land value reference via cost approach? This is all over the place, there is no more convenient easy to work and simple to understand appraisal grid? No more easy references, no more simple review, no more simple internal checks for the appraiser. Where is the net gross percentage indicators under the sections?

    The real nightmare comes with the expandable forms choices on pg 20 something. Sale date and contract date each have their own unique adjustment field? Window surface area? Non continuous finished areas? Total dwelling volume? Are we to apply an adjustment for air space? A disaster mitigation line in property features category? HERS rating. Oh I see, ‘standard’ and ‘non standard’ below grade areas. We went from not discriminating against disability modifications and being generally not even allowed to mention that, to having an adjustment line for them, brilliant.

    Quality and condition line for every single item? Where is the effective age association for each individual item as well if they’re doing it that way? Doesn’t age also effect quality of the item, as the condition wears? It’s important to assess the quality and condition of your ceiling, which naturally is in the same line as the walls, but not the floor. Water feature, is that where the sprinkler goes, or the pool? ‘Outdoor living’ expressed as it’s own individual financial adjustment to market value? Martha Stewart has entered the FNMA redesign chat. Pg 53, they’ve totally removed the net/gross percentage indicators. Additional properties analyzed not used? What the hell do you think the market research sections represent? View from unit in the rentals? It’s imagination time boys and girls. How the hell am I supposed to know every detail of every rental I select as a comp, I’m barely able to get that information for my subject.

    The condo section is rich, appraisers basically can never get HOA data for free or as a courtesy anymore. Rent concessions on rental comps? That’s not how data gathering in the real world even works in every location. Pg59, ‘units excluding adu’s’ That’s going to be 1 unit every time right? Do they understand an adu is different from a multi family where multiple units are under singular ownership like triplex quadplex? Is this how they expect to fold multi family housing into xml compliant forms? Outbuilding functional depreciation? Pro rata share calculation method? Do they mean the average of adjusted values? Why is there an amc company reference on every single page? Where is the lender line?

    ‘Appraisal modernization’, more like busy bodies desperately trying to justify their tech positions butchered what was already a well oiled well conceived, tried and true evolution of meaningful forms. They just threw decades of effort away and decided to start over, so the little fields would fit better on their silly little mobile device screens. It’s like doing 10 appraisals in one, and we’re going to have to constantly flip pages and scroll back and forth. Where is the net/gross adjustment percentages? Alamode better keep their side by side view because I can’t work the grid in 20 different column sections. It will be quite challenging to provide appraisal review unless I can get an xml copy to feed into software alongside a pdf, so I can see all the adjustments and entry sections in one place at one time, with net/gross percentages. They skipped the most fundamental basics. Idiots. That was a fun start to the day. See you later.

    Complain to FNMA appraisal department directly if you would like;
    https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/appraiser-contact-us-form

    7
    • Avatar Frank Wilson says:

      Make sure you measure to an inch and get every minute detail, or we can pay a PDC who doesn’t need to do that much and does not even care about accuracy.

      0
    • Avatar Mark Page says:

      Excellent overview. This is going to be a cluster f* extraordinaire!

      3
      • Baggins Baggins says:

        Thank you Mark. I’m still trying to figure out how to print that thing up to fill out in the field, with a pen, paper, clip board. The thought of being an independent appraiser, tied to the desk the rest of my life, never getting out in the field anymore for inspections, with no working benefits…

        Also made another comment on this matter in another thread worthy of consideration; the review factor. Because existing forms like the gp form which entities like state agencies or non lenders routinely use, will not be going away. This was also in response to another appraisers comment about a state board action posted above this post. Can they just stop and issue a delay, keep the existing forms in place? It seems everyone is a ‘stake holder’ quasi qualified process advisor in the appraisal industry, except appraisers. The arrogance and incompetency of these people trying to reform the appraisal industry, they straight up ignore the vast majority body of actual licensed appraisers whom are objecting.
        https://appraisersblogs.com/are-the-courts-a-remedy-for-financial-truth-tellers/#comment-38074

        Recently I unsubscribed from most threads, apparently was still subscribed to this one though. Trying to just focus on current threads lately.

        0
  13. Avatar JM2C says:

    It seems like we have been running on a treadmill for years, unable to reach our goal. But now, it appears that the light at the end of the tunnel was never a beacon of hope – instead, it’s just an oncoming train! They are giving us shovels to dig our own graves by burying what remains of our appraisal business. Looks like all those miles ran were for nothing; better start packing our bags and getting off this ride before we’re run over!

    5
  14. Avatar Mike says:

    After over 39 years of appraising, I find it offensive of the continual changes required by “the industry” to further “capture more information; reduce objectivity; make more time efficient; and produce a more accurate valuation.”. BS!!! I was around during the S&L Crisis (for which we got blame). Requirements and regulations came into play. Then removed. 2008 Crisis – Dodd-Frank (hate it or not) gave us the club back to do what we are supposed to do. All of these changes over the years was just a ploy to gain access to our income, because they don’t realize the efforts good appraiser’s go thru. Look at our expenditures over the last 30 years. Look at the required education costs, insurance, office expenditures, and there are idiots in my area slicing throats for a fee I was charging 20 years ago. “THEY” consider us as an obstruction….until the market changes. “THEY” have been mining our data for decades to utilize in the AVMs. “THEY” DON’T GIVE A F%@$K!!!!!!

    9
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Mike, that’s basically the argument of unintended consequences, poisonous protectionism. We’re from the government and are here to help. Wherever these institutions supposedly started out, for the public good. Where the notion of protecting the public trust comes from. It’s pretty obvious whom the personnel of these institutions are now advocating for. It’s certainly not the working man or citizens whom have long since been steered and corralled into these government subsidized systems. Makes sense that this restraint of trade based monopolistic model eventually made it’s way to one of the last fully independent sectors of the financial industry. Guess what’s next. More regulatory overhaul and more regulation in general. Guess who’s next to enjoy the new modernization of lending systems benefits.

      3
  15. Avatar Eric Kretz says:

    So the 1004 is going from 6 pages to 20+ pages?

    Only the government could screw something up that bad.

    10
    • Avatar Woody Fincham says:

      Reports are already that long anyway. Just imagine that you’ve got sections of the format that are going to expand as you type. So instead of doing a three or four paragraph Highest and best use analysis on the addenda you now just doing them in that section of the form. Same thing with your sales comparison, commentary and everything else. So yeah, it is bigger, but it really isn’t.

      0
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      ‘Only the government could screw something up that bad.’

      That’s what I should have said, lol. Your tax dollars, hard at work.

      8
  16. Avatar Pat says:

    Well well well

    Fannie is being put in the hot seat
    Someone is paying attention to our UNITED voices.

    Keep up the good fight… I predict that we will hear ABOUT FACE very soon!!

    5
  17. Avatar hammering hank says:

    This new form is a POS.

    No real easy read continuity. Worthless fields to fill in/cells. All over the place. More pages spread out/ DATA is harder to decipher.

    Current form is 2 pages & easy to read.

    The example is a joke too.

    The subject is 5BR… uses all 4 BR comps… huh? .5 bath in basement is under the garage slab? Interesting. Comp #3 is adjusted UPWARDS proving nothing to indicated value.

    Garbage.

    5
  18. Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

    If they did not upend appraisers with at least 2 major changes per month it would be boring. The never ending evolution that you guys endure is a direct result of all of the organization’s (pronounced parasites) that feed off of appraisers. Each parasite feels the need to tweak things to prove they are doing some type of work. Prime Example: USPAP Courses and the ever evolving USPAP. manual.

    6
  19. Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

    I predict that 20% of the active appraisers quit within 12 months of implementation.

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    • Avatar Jack of all Trades says:

      I predict allot more than that.

      9
    • Avatar Mark Page says:

      Isn’t that the goal?

      0
      • Baggins Baggins says:

        It’s complicated. Lenders will still need to fulfill the requests. I for one will certainly be altering the engagement to complete the requested assignment on traditional forms, requiring a full inspection from me, and will decline to complete the new form. There will likely be a sort of litmus test period before full implementation of the insane new forms. Perhaps it will play out just like hybrid requests, they won’t be able to find appraisers to take the requests, and will stall out by allowing the traditional forms to still be submitted. Appraisers in mass have rejected the hybrid forms for a decade now. These people never learn and hope to force us into compliance. They can complete the appraisals themselves if that’s their position on the matter. Full fee, full service, traditional forms, or bust.

        In and out burger is hiring literal burger flippers at $45k a year. Nowhere to go but up from the appraisal industry. Maybe if we could get qualified people with licenses to make these ‘stake holder’ decisions…

        0
  20. Avatar Dave says:

    How does this new form speed up the appraisal process?
    I thought the biggest issue with appraisers are that we are too slow!

    5
  21. Avatar Kenneth Mullinix says:

    Well welcome to the new world of appraising. Now we are to be Home Inspectors. Your liability just tripled or more. You had better take construction courses to protect yourself. I was a Home Inspector for 25 years so I know more about construction than most appraisers (General Building Contractor) but if this is not your strong point, be prepared for the lawsuits to mount. There is a reason Home Inspectors have the most liability in the home selling process. The new forms are jumbled and a mess it appears, no more streamlining your work and being efficient. This is going to be a nightmare, just watch!!!!

    4
  22. Avatar Seneca says:

    Still not clear if this will be an online form or one in your software. Time consuming game changer if you had to start each report from scratch and not have your skeletons or quicklists.

    1
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      How does one print the ‘modernized’ fnma form out on paper, for field notes ahead of any data entry exercise at the computer?

      Many appraisers are still using a wooden clip board, pen, paper, calculator in the field.

      I’m going through old work files and reprinting on paper, it’s been nice. Had to buy paper for a decade, and now can just float through old work file recycled paper instead. I observed how we would go through exercises like filling out the blank form in the field. It was a great skill builder and helped appraisers focus in the field on what was important and relevant to observe. An interactive form? We’re still waiting to interact with the FNMA CU database, when will that happen?

      0
    • To the best of my knowledge based on the information that is currently available, this will be purely a cloud based dynamic form. How the software companies will be able to integrate with this system is yet to be explained.

      0
  23. Avatar JohnnyQ says:

    Fragmented in pieces so as to be disjointed and redundant. Good job!

    0
  24. While the current forms needed updating and editing to some degree, I’m not sure the answer was to go to a fully cloud based dynamic form. There are elements to the proposed new process that make sense but how practical will it be to those of us who run our business utilizing import software for data, data entry specialists, templates, etc. Will each report need to be started from scratch? Will we be able to utilize applications within the field that will be able to be imported into the new forms? Only time will tell if this new design will create chaos or if there will be consideration for these factors.

    I for one am completely paperless and collect all data, pictures, sketch, etc while in the field. I use data entry specialists plus additional software and processes within my business model that I am hoping will not be affected by the new dynamic form. If we will not be able to utilize these same time and cost saving measures, then I believe that I will have to lay off at least one of my employees, reports will take longer and subsequently, I will have to charge more. Will lenders take all of this into consideration when I raise my prices or will I still have to compete against fees that were acceptable 15 years ago?

    1
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      How does one print out this form on paper, for like a backup or training purposes or such?

      2
    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      To answer your last question: You will absolutely be competing with appraisers for 2003 fees while completing this new INSANE form. Every time that I am tempted to stick a toe back into the appraisal waters they pull a new stunt like this. I’ve been out of the business for 14 years; waiting for something…anything… positive to happen. Between the anemic fees and a new URAR designed by patients in a psychiatric ward, it’s safe to say that I am retired from appraising for LIFE. Thankfully, I have been investing in .coms for the last 23 years as a retirement hedge. Best of luck to all of you!

      1
  25. Baggins Baggins says:

    XML form type killed the protected signature argument. All one needs to do is extract that element from within the XML file, signature acquired. No permission or signature sharing requests are necessary. Search extracting xml photo elements or scraping xml photo files. Search xml editing and xml reading software.

    There is no longer a data entry location for land value while providing real property appraisals for existing structures? Separating land value from home value, aka the land to home value ratio, another essential element missed? Why can’t all the adjustments still be on a single page with the net/gross indicators below the grid? They could have simply scooted everything under the grid to another page, and added all these new adjustment lines into one single grid page.

    Where are the free entry lines for the grid area? Appraisers should have the discretion to uniquely label and adjust if needed, in several blank readily available free entry lines. Otherwise known as extra line items. Those appear to be missing as well. I see there is a miscellaneous line, one single miscellaneous line. What if the appraiser needs to adjust for multiple miscellaneous items?. There is a net adjustment total, missing a percentage indicator, and no gross adjustment total, also missing a percentage indicator. Where are those indicators for individual comps? Would a shed go in ‘outdoor living’ line, or in misc? Do people live in sheds, do they live outdoors? Why would adjustments for quality condition, be in a separate section from the quality condition descriptions? Shouldn’t that be one comprehensive section? Why not just put the adjustment column for quality descriptions next to the description columns, rather than having a second redundant reporting area just for the adjustments on another page? Where is the adjustment column for vehicle parking differences, I see a description, no adjustment column. Will there be a requirement to even fill out ‘additional properties analyzed not used’, or will they so cleverly make it a hard stop if we don’t enter something in that unnecessary reporting area? I hope that market exhibits section handles massive page overflow, to handle multiple uploads of multiple page market research documents. The interactive nature of this will not function well, there will be shortcomings such as having an adu field not available for comps, since it dropped away for subject, things like that. Single entity ownership of multiple units? That’s a different question than standard condo questionnaires which ask if any single entity owns more than 10% of units in the project. Will appraisers be able to select multiple size photo pages? I like to use the 15 per page ones..

    It’s the same data, with only slight differences, in a completely different arrangement. What a waste of time, they could have left the form as is, and tagged in those additional items with a simple grid page reconstruction to make it longer, or having an additional form inclusion like they did with the MC. Various Q’s indicate character entry limits. Appraisal software providers are likely to raise the appraisers software fees to accommodate. Q34, it’s going to be heavy code, slow your computer down.

    https://www.mismo.org/standards-resources/residential-specifications/reference-model/xml-schema
    Q32, MISMO scheme 3.6 and counting.
    https://www.mismo.org/standards-resources/residential-specifications
    There it is, reference to xml spy and xml editor software. You know, to improve the reports functionality…
    https://www.altova.com/xmlspy-xml-editor
    Trisotech? ‘Disrupting the market with rapid introduction of new digital products’. & ‘But there is simply, and never will be, enough professional developers to expedite this Digital Transformation. Citizen developers need to be put to contribution’ / Oh I see. Force appraisers into this model of disruption, and our software developers will be put to contribution, and we’ll pay for it.
    https://www.trisotech.com/from-laws-and-regulations-to-decision-automation/
    KEM, knowledge entity model. Too long to quote the statement there. Meet your new new new sixth party appraisal content review software managers.’providing complete accountability (regarding government regulatory compliance through automation.) It only gets better. Instant respa compliance. Science!

    Similar to how appraisal management companies may very well send more assignment requests to non appraisers then they actually send to appraisers, it appears the appraisal software is being developed by a multitude of people within technical behemoths, NGO’s, GSE’s, and start up corps which may outnumber the appraisers who would use these forms. These companies have their hands in multiple industries all at once. They could care less how they effect the people in these industries. One of them even goes so far as to state purposeful disruption and forced offloading of developmental manpower effort is their intended goal. These tech people are extremely biased, as they advocate for their causes, increasing their market presence. Appraiser bias is just an excuse to scoot what nobody in the appraisal industry actually wants, onto our plates, more automation.

    There must have been a lot of backlash though, many of the new faq’s dealt with grace periods. Alamode is still sorting out the glitches and details with the Wintotal Total software many many years later. These are unrealistic expectations to expect them also to accommodate this real time cloud interactivity and novel new structure development on top of increasingly complex code, on top of all the other complicated factors involved. The use of indexing and tagging in forms from a rich 50 something year history of appraisal service efforts, which software providers tediously labored to digitize and integrate, just thrown away with an entirely new code base? Has alamode made any statements on this? See the image below. That’s control, that’s the appraiser being in control of the informational flow of their reports, how things are arranged, for professional presentations. Is that all going away? I just opened up Total, there is no total number indicator but may be a few thousand additional form choices in there for appraisal report customization. Has anyone designing these forms ever had working experience with using appraisal software from the user side? I’ve read through all of this in detail twice now, form, tech schematics of the form, faq’s, and tracked down a portion of stated industry link references. Gets worse each time. Why would the appraisers employee status be considered an important new data inclusion? Taking bets now how long it will take them to remove the data entry point for ‘the amc fee’.

    1
  26. Avatar Koma says:

    Two more years till retirement…aaah can’t wait for the serenity!

    1
  27. Avatar jaydee says:

    One must ask the question: “Who benefits” from this change? Not the appraisers who are RESPONSIBLE for the valuation. NO ONE ASKED the appraiser(s) PRIOR to acceptance of this form. I see they want “estimations of remaining life”. On the overall building – fine. But components? Can anyone say LIABILITY? Now couple this with DISCRIMINATION outcries!! I’m almost glad they found a tumor in my head and that I’ve been forced into retirement.

    2
    • Exactly! They keep wanting us to be INSPECTORS. We all know that the final responsibility rests with the Appraisers and the detail they want from us is completely unreasonable. We are not trained to provide remaining life for components! Hell Even inspectors do not do this…and why? LIABILITY

      1
  28. Avatar BRIAN says:

    in the cert #24 – Any person or entity who receives this appraisal report in accordance with the foregoing
    may choose to store, copy, reproduce, analyze, use and distribute this appraisal report in whole or in part in any format for internal or external purposes without having to obtain the appraiser’s or supervisory appraiser’s (if applicable) consent.

    THEY ARE TELLING YOU THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE YOUR INFORMATION & NOT PAY YOU – JUST LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS – NOW THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO DISCLOSED THAT

    3
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Just only gets worse. Great find. These private companies operating under some quasi governmental authority have clearly gone too far.

      “I can neither confirm nor deny, that I have ever completed ‘an appraisal’.”

      2
    • Avatar Seneca says:

      Yea, that whole paragraph is inconsistent and bumbling.

      0
    • Avatar Eric Kretz says:

      When the new 1004 form rolls out, I’m out. I will not have every clown in the circus coming after me and my E&O if they dont like anything about the report. I have specific language in my addendums that explain who is and who isn’t the client, which has bailed me out a few times over the years with realtors and others:

      “Regardless of the means of possession of the report, this appraisal may not be used or relied upon for any use other than the stated use, by the identified intended user. Reading the appraisal report or possessing the report does not constitute use. Relying on the appraisal report to understand how the appraiser developed the opinion of value does not constitute use. The appraiser, the appraiser’s firm, and related parties assume no obligation, liability, or accountability for any other use. The client is advised not to use of any calculations, values, or conclusions contained in this report for the purposes of determining the amount or type of insurance coverage on the subject property, as no part of this report is written or intended for use for insurance purposes. The use of this document in part or in its entirety by any other party than the identified client(s) without consent of the client, appraiser, or appraiser’s firm is prohibited and voids this document and it’s use. Any discussion or consultation with anyone other than the identified intended user regarding this appraisal report will be done so for a fee, with written consent obtained from the lender/client noted in this report prior to appraiser engagement for services.”

      1
  29. Avatar Pat Turner says:

    Basically this is a flustercluck

    1
  30. Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

    Lets talk fees…damn their rules about collusion. How much will you guys be billing for the new fuster cluck form?

    1,000 SF home
    2,500 SF home
    4,000 SF home
    No acreage

    0
    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      OK I will start the bidding. Price includes full inspection and no assistance from burger flippers.

      1,000 SF single family: $700
      2,500 SF single family: $800
      4,000 SF single family: $900

      Add more for acreage, historic nature, weirdness factors, and green features.

      0
      • Baggins Baggins says:

        https://www.careerbuilder.com/advice/blog/high-paying-entry-level-jobs
        Burger flippers at in and out around here start at $20 an hour.

        Your fees are quite reasonable, at least for Colorado. The news the other day says we have the highest inflationary rate of any state in the country. The thing about the new forms is nobody will have experience with them, and they’ll never ever gain that experience either. Half of the industry whom does not complete GSE work, yet still works with GSE appraisers through avenues such as review, state, legal, and beyond, they all still use and are familiar with thecurrent 1004 form, or the GP general purpose form. Unless Fannie waves a magic wand which miraculously can make all 80,000 appraisers and the few other hundred thousand people whom routinely work with appraisers competent to use this new form, without having special software subscriptions, this will not be a broadly accepted form. I’m still waiting to see the full long form version which I can print on paper to perform write ups in the field with a pencil. That’s the most basic initial training for an appraiser, to have them manually fill out the 1004 form in the field while the mentor supervises and walks them through all the different categories and how that relates to every single action we perform in one way or another. We wish all the tech nerds of the world would take a very very long vacation and learn how to provide a finished product. It’s like we have to always suffer a never ending stream of security breaches, new software learning tasks, adjusting our entire lives and business activities, just so tech people can stay busy and employed full time. The current form is good enough and if they must change it, they should at least keep the basic format of the grid in one page. It’s really a waste of everyone’s time to create some all in one interactive form when they could have simply revamped all the different individual forms for less than half the time and effort, had the effort finished up for a seamless industry transition in less than a few months time. Just throwing money and resources away on a pipe dream of total automation. Your tax dollars, hard at work.

        1
        • Avatar Eric Kretz says:

          Its all about the data mining, brother. The form wasn’t changed for appraisers, it was changed to benefit the GSE’s and their data collection algorithms. From what I’ve read not one appraiser was consulted in the new URAR redesign. The complexity you describe from the tech nerds is not by mistake, they want to phase the appraiser out and rely upon data collection.

          As you mentioned, who is going to take the time with a new trainee to learn them up on this new form? The issue of not enough new appraisers entering the profession will be compounded when they see just what a steep learning curve it is for all of us. In-N-Out looks really good about now.

          1
          • Baggins Baggins says:

            Data mining is all the rage but look how fast the fever for automated systems is fizzling out. After a few years of non stop hipocracy and beyond obvious bias which ends up inevitably being coded into every single ‘AI’ program out there, the fever for AI has already abated for most. Like how Sports Illustrated fired all the journalists and went with AI, then got roasted for pushing nonsensical faux article pieces. And we’re not talking possibly subjective bias like with humans, with AI artificial intelligence systems we’re often talking outright non objectivity and advocacy, lies and blatant deceptions.

            AI systems are known and now proven to lie with impunity and are often unaware they are committing any offense. Cyber attacks which work are now an everyday event, the CU system is not an exception, as we viewed with the recent First AM hack, which was a continuation of successful penetration into lending based systems. Only a matter of time.

            CHD Childrens Health Defense published a lengthy article on AI systems conversations related to a higher complexity subject which was vaccines, and we learned a lot of highly disconcerting things about the unreliability of automated intelligence systems, I’ll try to find you the article, a long read but worth while. There is still a sliver of hope that the FHFA, Fannie, and Freddie managers will come back to the real world with the rest of us humans, and stop worshiping the AI golden idol, placing everyone in harms way with these pushes to more and more automation.

            The truth of the matter is that those systems if implemented and human appraisers totally eliminated, in all likely probabilities, will immediately become unreliable and will undoubtedly be manipulated and recoded over and over again by those with direct access to the systems and biased intentions (applied advocacy for institutional investors and lenders interests over and above that of the consumer).

            https://www.housingwire.com/articles/first-american-cybersecurity-attack-disrupts-closings-over-holidays/
            https://nationalmortgageprofessional.com/news/first-american-financial-corporation-suffers-cyberattack

            Who trusted those people to be in front of computers with administrative access? Lol, tech jokes.

            https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/chatgpt-ai-covid-vaccine-dna/
            Use the search bar with this term on that site; Artificial Intelligence. ‘non-intelligent AI systems’. Prone to the bias and ignorance of every programmer whom comes in contact with the system, a cumulative building risk. AI in valuation will be no different, and probably worse in terms of mid term and long term data reliability.

            1
      • Avatar Pat Turner says:

        Don’t you think that the AMCs collude everyday?

        0
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Holy smokes! VA fees just jumped again.

      Your ready to go honest market fee guide, compliant with the original spirit of the Dodd Frank Reg Z regulatory instructions on C&R (market fees as if no amc was involved), just a click away. Don’t forget to add the amc surcharge for the additional oversight and scope requirements. Rather sad to review this, HUD and the various Fannie clients are still behind.

      https://www.benefits.va.gov/homeloans/documents/docs/denver_fee.pdf

      2
      • Avatar Eric Kretz says:

        Baggins,
        That is an old VA Fee & Timeliness sheet from 12/21. Those fees were nice when I was getting 4 orders a week from them. When I got on the VA panel the VA fee was $400 and everyone else was paying around $350. VA realized that in 2014-2016 they were falling behind and kicked the fees to $600, then bumped them again in 2019 to $800.

        If anything, the VA will revisit the fees “in Washington DC” for 2024 and those 1004’s at $800 will most likely go down to $500-$600. VA has always been astute to market trends and have adjusted the fees to be competitive within the market every few years.

        At least some entities still value and appreciate the fee appraiser, for now.

        2
        • Baggins Baggins says:

          The fees will of course remain fluid, but there are new dynamics at play. Such as the new appraisal forms which from a mathematical equation perspective for someone whom actually has to fill out and use the forms to come about defensible valuation analysis positions, are a total nightmare. Whom in their right mind spreads out a math equation which could fit on one page, across ten dozen interactive pages and does not even include the basic rudimentary tools a human needs to complete the math, like net/gross indicators? Then we’ve got the value acceptance programs which basically removed all the simple work that trainees need and appraiser firms used to thrive on, all of that work is gone and automated away. The only work we get now is high risk low score type of assignments well over the demin value baselines. So I beg to differ on any assumption that the fees will come down and adjust. Fees are only going to increase as more appraisers quit, are busted out by ever more dangerous liability pitfalls, or become burned out by the burden of receiving only complex work assignments all the time because all the bread and butter work like PIR’s or simple assignments are either automated away by value acceptance or completed by non appraisers, courtesy of the amc industrial model.

          Lenders in the know whom are not using amc’s have had a pattern of constantly increasing the appraisers pay to try and retain us, because there is such a constant brain drain as people with options and ability, simply leave this industry. The amc model drove most of the specialists out of this industry but there are a few whom persist, at least for now. Couple in the insane inflation, the fees are never coming down again. There will never again be as plentiful of a body of licensed qualified appraisers to exploit as they have had over the past two decades. We’re on new ground, in new territory now.

          2
      • Avatar Pat Turner says:

        Not in Virginia yet

        Fingers crossed!!!!!

        0
  31. Avatar jaydee says:

    Crying about fees? Again? Still? You’re all your own worst enemies!!! Sure it’s slowed but that is no time to lower your fees! Inflation keeps going up and your lowering your fees to remain competitive? Stop competing with your fellow appraisers! We all need to make a living, we all have bills, we are all worried I get that. But if you think that if you lower your fees you will (and might) continue to work? But when does it become counter productive? Appraisers are our own worst enemies. I would bet a dollar to a dozen doughnuts that some of you are doing full appraisals for less than $300. NO ONE should take less than $600. But since I needed to have a tumor removed, I underwent neurosurgery. I was forced to make a decision to retire myself. With all the lawsuits, cries of discrimination, new forms “lower fees”; all I can say is: Happy New Year and GOD speed to all of you.

    3
    • Retired Appraiser Retired Appraiser says:

      I agree with you 100 percent, unfortunately asking and receiving are two very different animals. I was considering coming out of retirement and taking on one order per week just to stay active. You can bet that I would be asking top dollar for my work. I am not encouraged by the fact that our largest local bank has appraisal fees listed on their web page at $450.

      0
      • Avatar Pat Turner says:

        It might be a good idea to ask them how that fee was established and there is a little thing called DODD-FRANK

        1

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