Maxine Waters Wants Appraisers Investigated
On February 22, 2022, Maxine Waters sent a letter to HUD Secretary Marcia Fudge, TAF, ASC and AI regarding ongoing appraisal bias and discrimination. She is calling on the federal regulators and AI to investigate appraisers’ misconduct and potential illegal discrimination. She will also be introducing legislation to address ongoing discrimination.
Maxine Waters’ letter “highlights longstanding racial inequities plaguing America’s home valuation system”.
The letter highlights longstanding racial inequities plaguing America’s home valuation system, particularly in Black-majority communities and other communities of color. To illuminate the severity of this issue, Chairwoman Waters references an email recently sent by an appraiser who uses racial slurs to describe Black people and implies that appraisers and lenders will deny business to people of color the more discrimination is reported. In response to this email and ongoing reports of discrimination, Waters urges Secretary Fudge, the Appraisal Subcommittee and the appraisal industry to launch a full investigation and announces her plan to introduce legislation to address ongoing discrimination.
“Some may say that the words of one appraiser do not reflect or represent the profession. However, years of data, ongoing research, and numerous settled lawsuits provide ample evidence to the contrary. The email I reference shines a spotlight on the racist stereotypes and harmful lines of thinking prevalent in an industry which systematically devalues the homes of Black people and other people of color…” wrote Chairwoman Waters. “Given this email incident and ongoing reports of appraisal discrimination, I will be introducing legislation to address systemic appraisal discrimination.”
The full text of Maxine Waters letter below:
Secretary Fudge, Chairman Segerson, Mr. Park, Mr. Bunton, and Mr. Bishop:
During my time as Chairwoman, the House Committee on Financial Services has paid special attention to the racial inequities that continue to plague America’s home valuation system, including through home appraisals, despite the passage of anti-discrimination laws.[1] National quantitative analyses from Freddie Mac[2] and scholars such as Drs. Andre Perry,[3] Junia Howell, and Elizabeth Korver-Glenn[4] have shown the systemic devaluation of homes experienced in communities of color, especially in Black-majority communities. This has been supported by data presented in numerous recent news media reports and lawsuits.[5] Qualitative research from these scholars, as well as most recently from the National Fair Housing Alliance,[6] has also shed light on the ways in which individual appraisers and the appraisal profession help perpetuate systemic and overt racism, highlighting statements made by appraisers as well as policies and practices that continue to be upheld by an appraisal profession that is 97% White.[7]
As an example of these ongoing trends, I am forwarding to you an email recently sent by an appraiser to Dr. Elizabeth Korver-Glenn, one of our nation’s foremost experts on bias and discrimination in the housing appraisal industry. In his email, the appraiser characterizes “minority” children as “illigitimant” [sic] and “poorly educated” and refers to the names of Black people as “obserd” [sic]. He also states that “racism is not as prevalent as you might think,” while ironically describing his racially segregated White neighborhood and pointing out the lack of investment in Black neighborhoods. Such statements cannot and should not be dismissed as “unconscious bias.” They reveal and perpetuate the false stereotypes upon which racism was founded and continues to shape communities across our country today.
Moreover, the author of the email goes on to imply that appraisers and lenders will double-down on discriminatory practices against communities of color, by refusing to perform appraisals, the more that people continue to speak out about racism in the appraisal and housing industries – “Appraisers are being turned in nationally because of so called race. The trend of course will be to refuse the assignment. […] As the cry wolf extreme for lending and appraisals ramps up, appraisers and lendings will simply run from these loans not wanting any conflict,” a practice which is illegal under federal law.[8]
Some may say that the words of one appraiser do not reflect or represent the profession. However, years of data, ongoing research, and numerous settled lawsuits provide ample evidence to the contrary. The email I reference shines a spotlight on the racist stereotypes and harmful lines of thinking prevalent in an industry which systematically devalues the homes of Black people and other people of color. It does not reflect the ideals upon which our nation was founded nor the objectives of current statutory and regulatory standards. We can no longer turn a blind eye to the behaviors that make this inequity a reality.
Given this email incident and ongoing reports of appraisal discrimination, I will be introducing legislation to address systemic appraisal discrimination. Additionally, I ask that the Department of Housing and Urban Development investigate this matter and ask that you, Secretary Fudge, initiate a systemic fair housing investigation into housing valuation discrimination. I also call on the Appraisal Subcommittee, the Appraisal Foundation, and the Appraisal Institute to fully coordinate with State appraisal regulatory agencies and boards to conduct a full investigation into the incident described here, including whether any appraisals may have been improperly or incorrectly taken into consideration a prohibited basis, and to determine what actions should be taken.
In the coming months, my Committee will convene hearings, advance legislation, and continue working with stakeholders to end housing discrimination and hold the appraisal industry fully accountable. I look forward to your responses to this incident and this letter. Please contact Alia Fierro, Deputy Director of Housing, Community Development and Insurance, with any questions at alia.fierro@mail.house.gov
Sincerely,
MAXINE WATERS
Chairwomancc: The Honorable Patrick McHenry, Ranking Member
Attachment: Email Sent to Dr. Korver-GlennElizabeth,
Who the hell are you, to inject such racism. Your sociology background, well simply is flawed. You should get out of the office and work with an appraiser and see the impact of social groups, but more importantly, federal law, which makes poor minorities poorer. It’s called lower-income housing or LIHTEC, and only the wealthy democrats own these. They are an annuity right from the the US Treasury into the Democrat pockets. Hence the millions of refugees in the system.
Appraisers are being turned in nationally because of so called race. The trend of course will be to refuse the assignment. While the document I read suggest racism was the underlying cause of the values being low in minority areas, I would suggest its factual data that reflects values are simply low, as investors are fewer. As the cry wolf extreme for lending and appraisals ramps up, appraisers and lendings will simply run from these loans not wanting any conflict. To suggest the loan is biased and the appraiser is racist to simple. But I have come to expect why someone with your credentials would dare to suggest they have a clue about what trained and educated people as my self actually do.
With your education, this is the best you could do. I would suggest you are a flunky and our country is racing to the bottom with people like yourself not capable of doing the work. Racism is not as prevalent as you might think. Im [age redacted] and I live in the house I grew up in. the stret has hardly changed even wen you get to the poor black neighborhoods. The point is, not much has changed, and these neighborhoods are socially adapted based on social behavior people are attracted to.
Come to [state redacted], I will pay for your ticket, and I will walk your through your sociology degree and then ask you what you see after spending a week with me in the heart of the deep south where minorities are paid to raise their poorly educated kids illigitamant kids. Lets not forget the parents gave the kids obserd names that most employers immediately refuse to call. !!
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In June 2019, Chairwoman Maxine Waters convened a Subcommittee on Housing, Community Development, and Insurance hearing entitled, “What’s Your Home Worth? A Review of the Appraisal Industry.”
In September 2019, Chairwoman Waters and Chairman Brown called on the Appraisal Subcommittee to provide answers on the unprecedented appraisal waiver provided to State of North Dakota.
In December 2020, Chairwoman Waters sent a letter to then President-Elect Joe Biden with recommended actions to reverse from the previous administration, including the need to ensure robust appraisal and evaluation processes that protect homebuyers.
In February 2020, Chairwoman Maxine Waters requested a GAO study to review protections for homeowners from appraisal loopholes.
In April 2021, the Committee passed H.R. 2553, the “Real Estate Valuation Fairness and Improvement Act” by voice vote.
In June 2021, President Biden announced an interagency initiative, the PAVE Task Force, to address inequity in home appraisals, drawing on the goals of H.R. 2553. The PAVE Task Force is led by Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Marcia Fudge.
- FHFA’s Appraisal Waivers Expansion - October 29, 2024
- Lack of Evidence, Appraiser Challenges Discrimination Claims - October 24, 2024
- NFHA’s False Narrative Undermines the Appraisal Industry - October 18, 2024
Sorry, I couldn’t read the entire article. Couldn’t get past the fact that all it took was one email, said to be racist, for new legislation to be introduced.
The legislation was already in the works. Just as including CRN, Dr. Perry and the Northern California advocacy group that urged the filing of the DOJ suit against the CA appraiser in the Mill Valley case to an advisory Board or Board of Governors of the TAF is.
One positive note: I suspect they will do away with the college requirement for certification since thats one of the racial equity issues cited.
Folks the time to fight this was when Abeena Horton raised the first big news case down in Florida. It has taken on a life of its own since then. Largely promoted by award winning activist journalist Julian Glover, and ABC News.
We have to keep challenging misinformation, but this is a PR war that we have already lost. It was a lost cause when AI and TAF pandered to the (then) unsupported claims for their own self serving interests.
Whoever wrote that letter should be banned from the profession and does not represent any appraisers I know. Another factor that needs to be looked at is some AMC’s practice of shopping jobs to the lowest bidder. When the least knowledgeable and least experienced are grabbing the majority of work because they are willing to work for low fees and travel anywhere to do them, it becomes a race to the bottom and hurts everyone. If you are crisscrossing the state to take jobs, there is no way you can accurately understand all the different markets and the different neighborhoods and the reports become meaningless. desktop and bifurcated reports will do nothing but acerbate the problem as people can get licensed in multiple states and churn out more crappy reports. There is no incentive to hire the best and most knowledgeable in this situation and the lenders and general public who depend on the reports are getting shortchanged. While racial bias may be an issue, incompetence and unfamiliarity with neighborhood and markets are having a huge impact on the situation. Good, strong appraisers who don’t want to work for peanuts are moving to avenues outside AMC’s and lender work which hurts everyone.
Maxine Waters is clearly uneducated and clueless as to how this all works, as is her staff that is feeding her false information. I cannot imagine that an actual appraisers wrote that email. (If one did, needs to be dealt with immediately). Why do those in power that have NO credentials in our profession, or a shred of knowledge on how it actually works get to make these calls? Ms. Waters (and others) who do not comprehend what we do, how this works, etc have NO business opening their mouths and spreading false information. If any appraiser is proven to be biased, they need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly. However, I see the number of those being so minuscule. Anyone can claim bias just because they “feel” their property is worth more than it actually is. Where is the protection for appraisers who are false accused? What ramifications are there for those who make false claims? Should be a federal offense.
It is a shame the appraisal valuation hotline was never implemented. There was supposed to be a hotline specifically for appraisers to use when others pressured them to provide inflated valuation opinions. Call that hotline on the financial services chair. Stranger things have happened and you can’t make this up.
When is this old bat getting voted out or retired?
Elizabeth Morse Rhodes probably never.
Who will replace her? She is just one of which uses a formula of deceit to satisfy her political motives.
I was at her hearing a couple of years ago with about 10 other residential appraisers. As a matter of fact, immediately after the subcommittee hearing I went and introduced myself. She is a true and polished gentlewoman. I was more than favorably impressed.
What was unfair and half-educated was the reliance placed by Dr Perry on Zillow as his only source for his charges.
Is there racism in appraisals? In my experience, there’s no more than in general life. There’s no more than in law, medicine, sales, teaching, accounting, sports, etc.
The part I strongly feel violated about is that charging racism is easy. Defending fairness in appraisals is extremely difficult; especially without producing any appraisals for open review.
Fair is fair.
Ms. Waters promised me to my face that she would have “boots on the ground “ appraisers heard at any future meetings. I pray she remembers that promise!
However, it does no good to sling around emotionally charged personal criticisms in my opinion.
we need to organize and advocate for ourselves as a group. There are characters at play in this game who are out to disparage us so they can make money selling their new more “ modern” systems AKA AVM technology. Maxine Waters is an educated professional. She is going by the information she receives. We need to make sure that she is hearing from us and not the other voices in the game. Dodd Frank was a result of the wrong information getting to government leadership and we have paid a tremendous price for it. It is time for us to stand up, unite and be heard before we lose again.
Here comes mention of Perry again, shilling for reparations so Brookings can skim the processing fees, an emerging program that will be bigger than EBT.
What’s a good witch hunt if you don’t chase someone down and throw them in the lake? If an appraiser sinks, they were not racist. If an appraiser floats; racist!
Witching congress?
Pat I wrote a lengthy reply to your email with Maureen and others cc’d. Text follows:
“I refuse to jump on the condemnation bandwagon with incomplete information.
The emailed letter’s author is clearly upset. Having written various posts and letters myself when upset, I can understand that the poor spelling and grammar is an emotional derivative rather than one that is calmly & objectively drafted. It’s too facile to dismiss the entire content based on typographical & grammatical errors.
It was certainly self defeating by being offensive to its intended readers / recipients.
Despite that, it raises a certain valid observations. One that should be especially disconcerting to all concerned about racial bias allegations. That is the fact that some appraisers have already started to decline assignments for borrowers who are Black.
Certainly, this is also bias, but it is a bias (apparently) born not out of racism, but of fear. Fear of losing their livelihood or having to spend a lot of money defending against false claims. I’ve had appraisers repeat such stories to me directly. Where possible, I try to discourage this kind of thinking.
I still believe our best defense against false allegations of improper bias (systemic racism), is to go the extra mile to assure that our service is performed without bias toward anyone, and to the best of our abilities.
The email was sent to a government official. It is a part of official records now.
I appreciate that redaction was likely a courtesy to avoid retaliation against the author, but without knowing who the author was, the emails authenticity cannot be evaluated by anyone outside the original recipients.
A copyrighted symbol or logo from the Appraisal Institute (AI) appears in the letter next to where the signature /author’s name should be. This is especially serious since it indirectly casts aspersions on that organization. I doubt that was the author’s intent. That he or she signed his or her name suggests either high levels of frustration, or personal courage knowing the likely reaction. It’s also unfair to the AI since they have no way of interviewing the involved party to see if their own organizational rules and regulations have been stretched or violated.
I think a more appropriate response than acceptance of the letter as a definitive indication of ongoing racism, is to consider all of the concerns and issues it raised.
That could include criticism of the other non-governmental organizational parties mentioned. It certainly includes the alleged bias on the part of such authors of Dr. Andre Perry (as is suggested in the first chapter of his own book), and the oft cited Brookings Institute Study. Questioning conclusions is not condoning the alleged offenses.
There is zero doubt that officially sanctioned systemic racism on the part of federal agencies of the United States Government took place. Nor is there doubt that it was rampant prior to the Civil Rights Act & Fair Housing Act . FHA itself had directive language about racial homogeneity in its 1934 published guidelines. Most of us in the appraisal profession have also seen exclusionary language in old deeds (exclusions or Covenants that properly have not been enforceable since the Fair Housing Act). Racial bias has also been a well documented factor in many pre 1970’s Redevelopment Projects, and federal highway related condemnation decisions.
None of these are or were prohibited bias by appraisers when they took place. Largely, they were political decisions by racists leaders at the city, county, state or federal levels.
The individual allegations of appraisal bias have largely been thoroughly disproven. At minimum nearly all have not been credibly demonstrated.
Remaining are unresolved issues of alleged long term or generational inequities arising from past racism or redlining in lending. Each issue has a different solution.
Individual racism IF proven by an appraiser should cost them their licenses. There is no compromise on this. Conversely, the critical operative phrase is if proven.
The standard for proof should be very high, and non-subjective. Its about as serious an accusation as can be made that doesn’t involve actual physical battery.
The loss of opportunity is more of a philosophical issue. I don’t say that dismissively. Its simply a claim that has not been universally accepted socially or proven. Respectfully, the entire Congress of the United States needs to come together and determine what attributable outcomes have been, and what, if any recompense is due. The views on this are not universally held by our Members of Congress. Instead of being debated at partisan committee levels, this is a topic for the entire Congress. One for which all should be on the record for their views and arguments. We should also consider past efforts to resolve perceptions of unequal opportunity which themselves caused new discrimination. Such as Affirmative Action.
We don’t need more divisive partisan politics. We need solutions. Solutions can only be found once we all agree on what the problem is. That hasn’t happened yet.
One thought that comes to mind is that the best way to end racism, is to end it officially at all levels. Justifying ongoing racism in the collection of census data assures that it will never die out.
Perhaps a better solution for measuring community needs and non-discriminatory compliance is voluntary participation via surveys?
Respectfully submitted,
Mike Ford
California General Certified R.E. Appraiser
Writing as my own personal opinions and observations.
Mike Ford –
Thank you. Good letter – balanced and well written.
I read it
Well done!
Thank you both. I DO get a mite windy.
It was a good read, well written and comprehensive. Per the above link on HR2533;
https://financialservices.house.gov/uploadedfiles/04.20.2021_bills-117-2553-c001061-amdt-5.pdf
24 month ticking clock, already in place 10 months. The intro mirrors your position on fnma’s history, or you mirrored that, either way. They so much as admit the discrimination was institutionalized long ago. That is your written evidence from the horses mouth.
Here we go again; pdf pg 10 line 11; providing implicit bias training for appraisers. (mandated CE classes). It will be a critical race theory sort of class, guaranteed. Convert or suffer the consequences. Just when we were making headway at getting this out of public education to stop the indoctrination of our children…
Mike, perhaps consider qualifying for pg 7 chapter 7 line 7; at least 2 appraisers or representatives from appraiser trade groups (you fulfill both criteria). Otherwise we won’t have a voice, given every other seat places industry persons whom are antagonistic to appraisers independence or sustainability in one form or another.
The bureaucratic approach although well intentioned will accomplish nothing other than increasing the quantity of diversity of persons in this profession. It will not accomplish it’s intended goals to somehow bring more equitable valuation to existing real property price and value disparities. Because regardless of whom specifically puts on the appraisers hat, race regardless they will be bound by uspap ethic and honest market value analysis principals just like we all currently are, required to report factual valuation measurements which are not fictitious or misleading.
These government people have somehow convinced themselves with their own color coded ideas that despite their admitted bureaucratic shortcomings over a long period of time, non caucasian housing values remain lower comparatively because the majority of appraisers are caucasian. Talk about racist! We don’t control how much people earn or are willing to spend, or how communities with different cultural values maintain their amenities and homes.
They’re going to throw a lot of money at this, and it won’t go anywhere. As I have already posted a relevant link below for ‘urban renewal’ projects which accomplish far more for less, no need to post that again. These people, lost in some illusion where all they think about is race race race. They’ve become blind to their own ineptitude as they also are addicted to spending other peoples money. If they want quality appraisers and more of us, they’ll have to get the amc middle managers filthy vulture claws out of our pockets and allow us to earn a decent living where we can afford to hire and train more people.
If anyone on that committee is reading this, I am willing to train just about anyone you throw at me, if that person paid me $50k a year for the effort. You can pay for their housing, you can subsidize their education, you can run them through special classes. That will not create a new appraiser whom can withstand the fierce pressures everyone from amc’s to lenders to commission based sales persons will throw at them. That will not cause housing values to become better balanced. And if they disregard locality in competent valuation comparability, such as the suggested ‘leniency’ to pick comps from dissimilar locational settings, they’ll just end up creating lender losses because it is the local market participators whom drive the local pricing points. This has nothing to do with the ethnicity of whom provides appraisal services. I could have trained a dozen people by now if the amc industry had not stolen all that opportunity away, expanded at a record pace, bragged about their expansion, and hired dozens of non licensed telecom people instead. Remember the picture of Brian Coester and his brother smoking that fine cigar? Geesh.
She is a politician Pat. Nothing but people lying to get elected.
Lowering the bar (doing away with the college degree requirement) is not a positive note.
Respectfully disagree…and fwiw it’s not lowering the bar. Its simply reversing the bad prior decision to raise the bar to preserve elitism.
Nothing we do is rocket science. It can all be learned by people with average intelligence and high school education coupled with specific topical courses. Experienced-based education is the best. Couple it with specific supplemental courses.
I don’t need a course in statistical analysis from Princeton when George Dell is around to teach me more, in less time (yes, I took the non-credit earning CourseRA offered for free by Princeton…& others). Hopefully I’ll retain more when I take Georges courses. Despite my bias against regression.
She is herself a racist and a bigot, and just like a “good” politician able to pull the wool over your eyes to your face, this is what they do, that’s why they get elected, because they can lie to your face about what they will do and either do the opposite or nothing at all. She is a liar through and through, and I’m sure very polished at it.
Maxine Waters is the chair of the House Financial Services Committee. Thus she and her office have more influence over these matters than all but a handful of people in government.
We would be wise not to disparage her.
And she is no different than many other Americans who have read these multiple media stories about biased appraisers. I have had friends & family asking about or commenting on the topic.
No one has yet discovered what I believe is the truth.
“Bias in Appraising” is a well organized PR campaign intended to discredit the entire appraisal profession and….. replace it with something else.
Something that is: “modernized” and “unbiased”
I welcome an INVESTIGATION. A full and complete and someday publicly disclosed investigation of ALL of the circumstances surrounding these claims. And these investigations should include:
1) Full review of the appraisals. Do they meet CURRENT USPAP standards and Fannie Mae guidelines
2) What was the purpose for which an appraiser was engaged? Refinance Loan? Drop PMI? Purchase?
3) Was an FHFA guaranteed loan subsequently made based upon the 2nd, higher appraised value?
If NO loan was made, then that’s strong evidence that some (or most, or perhaps even ALL) of these instances were a set-up…. and no scrutiny of the appraisals was performed.
Multiple entities should be involved. The circumstances AND the appraisals. Federal regulators, AI…. but also the state appraisal boards.
And I would like to add one more:
The US Dept. of Justice
Because crimes may have been committed by the well financed entities who have perpetrated this smear campaign.
Rob Engle totally agree
The requested research and logical conclusions have already been accomplished on this very website. Through a series of lengthy commentary posts involving hundreds of appraisers, through dozens of articles, all whom have broken down the story and researched every little detail. Appraiser replacement theory is already well established. The theory is bureaucrats have been instructed to pave the way for a corporate model of appraisal so they can eliminate one of the last truly independent checks to balance, engage in socialistic redistribution of wealth, create new institutions and manage those for profit, and in turn drive housing price higher for the most impoverished of the citizens, raking a higher taxation base. ‘Housing price being too low’ is synonymous with ‘Not being taxed enough’. After the fact events such as a rush in the corporate model to devour housing stock over the past few years appears to be a key confirmation point to the hypothesized goals. Use the search bar in the upper right of this web page to call up that rich body of data if so interested. keywords; racist, brookings, florida, blackrock, etc.
What exactly is wrong with lower housing prices? In times of prosperity things cost less not more. They’ve been pushing this for three years now and they’re going to continue to stage it up incrementally. However, by the time these bureaucrats get anything done the market bubble may burst.
https://schiffgold.com/key-gold-news/its-another-housing-bubble-and-the-fed-is-holding-the-pin/
I suppose, post this link again. The solutions for improving impoverished areas exist and there are many real world examples of how this can be achieved without any need to cast racist accusations, engage with international and national based corporations, expand government, and you don’t even need anyone other than local people to achieve the goals. Central planners are not the right people to tackle this issue. You are watching political theater.
Keyword; urban renewal.
https://www.c3gov.com/government/urban-renewal
“Bias in Appraising” is a well organized PR campaign intended to discredit the entire appraisal profession and….. replace it with something else.
Something that is: “modernized” and “unbiased”
This is an interesting and profound statement.
I believe that this is the ultimate goal, which is the Desktop and hybrid products be reintroduced (or rammed down the appraisers throat). They will force the GSE’s to use these and other AVM products in the name of accuracy, faster turn times for loans, and ‘unbiased’ valuations. Nothing could be further from reality, as race should never have any bearing on valuations. This is another nail pounded into the independent fee appraiser coffin.
Well said. Completely agree.
Wise observation, Congress and the Senate has the greatest political powers, the Appraisers do NOT. We only have a weak voice.
Not to mention the Bank Lobbyist greasing the Politicians palms. Good honest hard working appraisers don’t have that either.
It is disconcerting that only appraisers are racist and not AMC’s, lenders, banks, underwriters, reviewers, staff and well, every other profession.
Obviously, the person who sent the letter should be terminated. Anyone found to be racist should not be working in this or any field. That does not make every appraiser racist. This is disheartening. It feels like a distraction for another reason.
As in every profession, remove the bad seeds and then leave us alone. I treat everyone the same way they treat me.
This can be too easily used as a complaint forum for every appraisal deemed as “too low”.
You know what gets me; the poor spelling… The appraiser whom can’t use spell check. For a politician to single out an individual whom probably wrote one of the worst letters, ignoring the thousands of other meaningful well researched articles and letters, that’s not a very ethical high road to take. Appraisers need to think twice about ethical principals before just backing this based on political leanings.
You are watching political theater and I would not be surprised if the letter was fabricated in the first place. Even if the letter is real it’s still nothing compared to the daily offenses in the appraisal industry which involve ongoing racketeering by middle management, continued violations of appraiser independence, violations of anti trust, value pressure, coercion, an increasing lack of data security, the cosmic cobra effect, the pilfering of billions of dollars of consumer fees by amc’s for appraisal services by way of junk fee billing and unearned fee raking, etc.
One might think the chairperson on the house committee of financial services could spend their time in a more productive fashion than chasing down the real property appraiser community which represents not even a fraction of a percent of the total financial services sector. Who’s buying this? The participants set the market. The appraiser measures the market based on participants behavior which we have no control of. The story begins and ends in the exact same place. The counter argument is exceedingly simple which is why this whole theater needs constructed to conceal the simple fact that appraisers do not drive or influence market prices. We merely provide value analysis services under existing regulatory guidelines.
Can you imagine if they applied these proposed principals to the stock market or small business and every person who’s stocks or business were worth less had their value basis adjusted to match the other guy… A home is an investment, one which is made voluntarily. The only way for this argument to hold water is to eliminate independent appraisers entirely and that’s not going to happen. Remain calm and carry on.
This call to action may actually be more important than we initially realized. I’m going to make a point of answering this request soon and I hope you will too.
https://appraisersblogs.com/scofflaw-us-agency-taps-states-4-its-backchannel-budget
Throw another log on the fire to eliminate the appraiser. There is nothing that is going to stop this crazy witch hunt short of a world war and, as of today, that is not out of the relm of possibility. The term “location, location, location” has taken on a new meaning and is now akin to a conspiracy. If that is the case, then throw the Realtors in the mix for listing properties too low based on the politician’s theory. Oh, that’s right, they have a huge membership and Pac of which I am a member. I pay my dues just like the rest so where are you NAR?????
NAR advocating for appraisers?!?!
LOL. They are fighting to the front of the line to stab appraisers in the back. They hate us as much as the lenders. I’m sure they feel their CMA’s and BPO’s are sufficient for any valuation needs, you know, because we take too long and don’t understand value in appreciating markets. (sarcasm)
Or the politicians that engaged in and promoted the racism from 1867 until 1970.
Maxine Waters is one of the biggest racist on the planet, right up there with Al pop head Sharpton. I have been reviewing appraisal from across the nation for the last 12 years, I’ve been appraiser for 21 years. I HAVE NEVER SEEN ONE INSTANCE OF AN APPRAISER BEING RACIST ON AN APPRAISAL. WHAT WOULD THEY HAVE TO GAIN? Appraisers don’t get any extra pay or lose any if a loan fails or not. Maxine Waters should look in the mirror!!!!!
The tone is important. We should try and maintain a high degree of professionalism in the face of false accusations. Treat this no different than you would a claims or a complaint. The three D’s of liability protection; Disclose. Disclaim. Redirect. The appraiser lives and dies by the quality of data. First we take data in. Then we analyze data. Then we qualify data. Then we reconcile only the meaningful and qualified data. It’s best to leave the outliers and general noise of irrelevant data behind. Cheers. Personally I don’t care what most politicians and bureaucrats have to say. They are not the boss of me and they don’t speak for me either. Peace sells but who’s buying? Even if you are the only one, it is still important. Don’t play their game, especially not under their terms.
I just appraised a property for $8,000 above the owners estimated value. I am “white” he is “black” am I still considered a racist? I appraised another property for $40,000 above the “black” owners estimate. Am I still considered a racist? All I do is report what the market is doing, that is all.
I was denied employment with 2 government agencies because I am a white man, one with the county the other with the feds. All because of affirmative action quotes. The country assessor told me it would be a waste of my time to fill out the application, nor did it matter what my qualification were. He should have just posted “white men need not apply.”
The guy is an idiot – clearly. He is an embarrassment to the appraisal profession; an embarrassment to humanity. He does not reflect appraisers – certainly not any appraiser I have ever known. In my almost fifty years in appraisal, i have never encountered attitudes anything like his.
I think we have to be careful. Appraisers should not be punished for reporting true, accurate, and fair market values. No more so than doctors should be punished for providing true, accurate, and fair medical diagnoses. The investigations should be focused on that which causes depressed market values and not on those reporting the facts.
I believe EVERY appraiser white, black, yellow or Green should stand up to this which. This is not the first time she has pulled this. There is a study out that shows her using this term over 900 times in her career. Other congress members black & white say that she uses this tern so much that she dilutes the term” by using it so often. My message to her is (Being black does not give her a license to call me a racist. My favorite Teacher was Ms. Benson and she was black. In addition, I served in US Army, As we used to say the only color I see in my profession is O.D. GREEN
One of the oldest problems of color was touched off by William of Orange, when he chopped of Mary’s head in the Emerald Isle. The Orange men and the Irish have fought since the 1600’s
How are they differentiating between racism and incompetence? How do we know that it isn’t the accuser who is infact the racist?
This administration as a whole has been an utter joke. Where the country and world is in just a few years from before is downright scary and sad. We are who we vote in. We need better choices !
We is Us.
So, let’s see, Maxine submits an email supposedly written by an appraiser, proof of which has not been established, calls for a full blown investigation based on the aledged email, costing, probably millions of dollars, and is actually making the news. So, an entire industry will be investigated based on what, heresay from one individual who may or may not exist, who may or may not be an appraiser, who certainly has an agenda and sent it to the right person, if in fact it was really sent. This is one of the most absurd things yet from an elected official and it is being given credibility. Lot of unanswered questions here. If this were presented in a court of law it would be dismissed. I think recent revelations in the political arena suggest politicians are not beyond fabricating information to serve their agenda. Sad but true.
Yea for all we know this could be the likes of AMCs pushing this Racist Appraisal big lie to promote there push for there 1004 Hybrid crap. Maybe the investigation should start there, before falsely accusing the Appraisers once again without any real proof.
Anyone read the books by these scholars Maxine is following. (Andre Perry,[3] Junia Howell, and Elizabeth Korver-Glenn) They are educated in sociology and race relations but I don’t see a thing regarding economics, finance or real estate on their bios. I will try and find the time to read their work and better understand where they think they are coming from. They all have an agenda for change, however I doubt they understand the unintended consequences. They want higher values for minorities but also want “affordable” housing at the same time. That will prove to be difficult. Quote from Junia Howell bio; Formally trained as an urban sociologist and race scholar, I use quantitative (numbers) and qualitative (narrative) tools to identify and dismantle the specific policies, processes, and practices that uphold White supremacy.
The quote from her bio is indicative of her own strong racial prejudice. “…and practices that uphold White supremacy.”
Seriously? If a White person’s bio suggested practices that ‘…reinforce Black inferiority’ would there not (rightly) be outrage? Both are equally offensive. Speaking philosophically only, NEITHER could exist or be true without the other.
The ONLY way to end racism or racial bias is to stop practicing it. Creating counter-racism policies that are also racist is still racism.
That goes for the federal government too. I no longer answer census questions or any other surveys asking for my race. (Unless I’m just having fun with them in which case I respond with my DNA profile as much as possible).
I respond with human if I’m able to.
Generally speaking, while appraisers may reveal problems they rarely are the cause of the problems. Remember the age old caution; “Don’t shoot the messenger.”
Can you say the author is biased?
I would like to know what purpose Waters thinks there is Racial biased in appraising. What would any appraiser have to gain? This question alone if answered truthy negates the concept of it happening.
I spent a year in the Bay Area early in my career. In the East Bay (e.g. Hayward and San Leandro) there were vast neighborhoods that were pretty much exclusively African American. It is simply a fact that the values in these neighborhoods were lower than in comparable white neighborhoods. From what I understand, this is still the case. I have heard those who are accusing appraisers of being racist (e.g. Maxine Waters) cite comp selection as an example of discrimination. They say that within a mile or two there are similar homes selling at higher prices. So why, they ask, do appraisers limit their data survey to the immediate area around the subject property? Clearly they don’t understand professional valuation. There are problems. Prices are lower in black neighborhoods. But if Congress really wants to investigate something; they should be asking why values are lower, not why appraisals come in lower.* But that is a much bigger and more complex question. Politicians usually prefer a quick fix – even if it isn’t really fixing anything.
Mike good explanation…for anyone that knows how appraisal works. A current contention among those advocating for (various euphemisms) referring to “equity or theft of opportunity and similar concepts” is that we should find another way to value property other than sales comparison. One suggestion at one point was that we should look to income.
The obvious flaw in that one is income is also influenced by location. So is cost (land value). This is the bigger issue than any individual appraisal. Relates to disparate outcome philosophy.
And with assigned land value we are full circle back to Sales Comparison. Can’t get away from it. Grid or no grid we are estimating land value based on sales. What they are looking for does not exist. Sure it can be accommodated if the appraiser is willing to create an appraisal that is misleading, not credible, inflated and an outright lie. Sure, we are all looking forward to spending the best years of our lives in prison after shelling out 10’s of thousands (e&o doesn’t cover fraud) defending ourselves trying to appease Maxine Waters. It is one of the most self-serving, morally bankrupt, unknowledgable ideas ever. If this isn’t undue influence I can’t imagine what is. People need to educate themselves before speaking on something they know nothing about. It may be crossing the threshold of slander.
Politicians like to get donations and get reelected. Rabble rousing works better than fixing things even if its makes it worse.
Martin-the public mantra is not based on belief. It’s based on efficacy as sound or media news bites.
Most people in government or that do these studies and advocate for change don’t (or at least didn’t in the past) believe it is individual appraisers who are the problem. (Marc Morrison or Morrisy? renowned & WIDELY RESPECTED rights Advocate) who was a prominent speaker and participant at the last HUD/ ASC webinar on the topic came out and said it’s not meant to mean individual appraisers. Systemic racism is meant to refer to a system that has in the past and continues to produce disparate results and is therefore systemic racism as a result.
The problem is that calling us individually racist just produces SO much news coverage, that making fine distinctions just isn’t productive.
THEN when TAF and (regretfully) AI jump onto the pandering wagon, with “solutions” intended to address individual racism or loss of opportunity, those distinctions between systemic and individual racism become hopelessly conflated.
The shame and problem is that we did not collectively challenge the assertions of individual racism…including the phony allegations in nearly all of the media-reported cases. (one or possibly two didn’t have enough information to affirm or refute).
It might be a good idea to refrain from belittling people on a public forum, remember others are watching.
I agree CJK, but sometimes it cannot be helped, and there are also times that these politicians need to be stood against in public. They need to know that is NOT ok to claim racism whenever they want something.
I agree, however, the facts are the facts. I can’t think of anything more disparaging than being called a racist in the public arena. Obviously there are a lot of hard working, honest appraisers watching. Keep in mind they include white as well as Asian, Black, Middle Eastern etc. appraisers who she is including in her acustation.
I hate the whole concept of racism in today’s world, any politicians who use it as a crutch. It only exists on individual case by case basis anymore. And that happens equally among all races.
I hate the concept of William of Orange chopping off the emerald isles princess’s Mary’s head. This created a war which has survived for longer than any, the war between The Green and the Orange, a war of color. only they can stop it.
20 years ago I was asked to do a second appraisal in North Philadelphia. In this neighborhood the economic level of the people was basically minimum wage and just above minimum wage. Due to the economic level, this neighborhood of Philadelphia was one of the lowest valued neighborhoods, many board-ups and many homes that needed to have exterior repairs done. It was because they simply did not have the amount of money that they needed to do the repairs. The borrowers house had been renovated, it was on a good block without board ups or Urban blight. My appraisal came in twice as high as the first appraisal, when I was questioned about this, I asked to see the comps that were used and they were the lowest selling comps in the neighborhood, suffering from external depreciation due to board ups and neighborhood blight. If memory serves to house appraised for $40,000, while the first appraisal came in at $20,000. I was stunned that an appraiser would do this and the only thing I could tell the lender is that he was racist against the people of color. I have seen many incompetent appraisals as I did my review appraisals years ago but I have never seen another racist appraisal in my 30-year career. I just want to put this out there that racism is alive and well in our country, the southern states are still fighting the civil war in their minds and there is prejudiced across our country that is obvious of today’s politics. I myself experienced racism when I went to school down south and met others that hated me as soon as they heard my northern accent. They literally hated me because I was born in the north. While this is 35 years ago, we all know that racism is alive and well in our country, the story I just read, that appraiser is from the deep south, and I am sure there are areas of his territory with low economic people. We all know the values of the properties we are appraising are due to the economic level of the people. In conclusion a couple of bad apples in our profession have put the entire profession under a magnifying glass now. And frankly some of the comments I have read regarding Miss Waters clearly shows me that racism and prejudice IS alive and well today. Some of you appraisers with your comments have showed your true colors with your comments, and frankly you’re too dumb to even realize. And that is the real problem, ignorance.
“the only thing I could tell the lender is that he was racist against the people of color.”
So, you are saying that because you think the other appraiser may have selected the wrong “comparables” he must be a racist? Okay, got it. A poor comp selection does not make a person a racist, you even said his comps came from the same neighborhood. It is not your responsibility to belittle the other appraiser. You are an advocate for your report. Let the lender/client question the other appraiser. If my client told me that you said I was a racist, I would see you in court for defamation.
CJK….To be clear…..The appraiser didn’t pick the “wrong” comps, he knew exactly the comps he used. So you want to try to pretend it was a honest mistake??? Go ahead and keep lying to yourself. He low balled the property based on the racial make up of the market area. There was enough settled sales of renovated properties perfectly similar to the subject to supply without adjustments. It was a no brainier report. Like I said, it was the only appraisal I have ever seen written with prejudice. No appraiser makes that kind of mistake by accident. He used the lowest sales he could find. Get over it, Racism and prejudice are alive and well.
Its nice that the appraisal Gods nominated you to interpret others intentions and processes. I live in the South and my best friend is from Cleveland. Yeah, we all hate him cause he is from the North. hahahaha.. You are a person with a problem and a chip on your shoulder. Using your Devine powers to tell others what you think a persons intent was is just wrong, as are you.. GEEZ.
Dale, so you do not think racism and prejudice is still alive and well in our country today? Why do you think I have a chip on my shoulder when I am telling about a racist appraisal that I saw 25 years ago ??? And are you really trying to say that since you have a friend in the north that racism and prejudice does not exist? Sound like I hit a nerve my friend.
Of course, there is racism in appraisal same as any other industry in life be it legal, medical, building, blue collar, white collar and so forth. I think the issue is the entire appraisal profession is being painted with a broad brush and that is unjustified and without merit.
PJTMC, You are 100% right. And all because of a few bad actors. No one is saying the entire profession is racist, just a few, apparently enough to have to investigation. Let them investigate if they want. Only the racist appraisers have something to worry about.
Here is another story, the guy who taught me told me this one, He went into a house and they had a picture of the world trade center building on the wall. And there was a happy face sticker over top. He punched the picture breaking the glass and walked out of the house. Its a shame people are like this, but welcome to the real world.
You may want to brush up on the ‘principal of substitution’. Because if you’re anywhere near discounted dilapidated properties those can be valid comps. Advocating for higher value when the same thing can be purchased for less is in fact a form of fraud. I’d rather be called a racist than brag about being incompetent. You’re way off the page dude, a $20k difference may be attributable to many things including the general obsolescence of the area. I don’t care if they lined that house and entire block with gold, the market value would still be limited by the surrounding market. Being on the only block without blight does not mean very much, so long as everything around it is still blighted.
Baggins…Have ever appraised in North Phila zip codes 19121 and 19132 ??? Because if you haven’t then you have rendered an opinion without ever having to do the 1st thing an appraiser is supposed to do….Inspect, research and write the report. If any of you were appraising in these 2 zip codes 25 years ago, let me know. I myself was on every block many times as a staff appraiser for a stupid lender named Aames home loan from Cali…they sent everyone in those 2 zip codes because the did not have a mortgage. In 1995 we had 3 mls sales to use, I still remember $26,000, $28,000 and $32,000 and they were renovated. No banks, no commercial, no nothing. This WAS the area where shootings occurred every night and day. Drugs, prostitution, abandoned and stolen cars striped to the frames, trash everywhere and out of 1 block of 60 row homes, some blocks only had 1 or 2 livable houses. Other blocks had 5-10 open to the weather and boarded up homes. Lenders could not lend, cost of repairs was much more then market values. You hear about red lining…this was the market area lenders would not lend, back then they would not lend if the house was located next to a board up, let alone 5-10 or more on the block. This idiot company set apts for us up to 4 months in the future, we were set for 4 every day, it was not hard because they were so close together. After a year and a half Aames closed this office as out of 2,000 appraisals, they only lent on 43 of them. The idiots of Aames never bothered to ask an appraiser what was the average value of homes in those 2 zip codes. And since their minimum loan amount was $10,000 and they had to have 10k for any foreclosures and the points they had to pay the L.O’s, there was not enough equity to do the loans, only those which had been updated and sat on decent blocks, The external deprecation of 20k you refer was already “built in ” into the sales prices of that neighborhood, those 3 comps I previously mentioned were on blocks with no board ups. We were over joyed as the months went by as we had some new sales to use, this is the area of North Phili that the lenders could not even get appraisers to go into. After a year and a half, Aames shut there doors and I went independent. i made a fortune appraising these areas because everyone was terrified to go into them. We also handed the low economic area of South Phila and West Phila and parts of Delaware county named Chester City. As time went by, I was hired by lawyers to appraise these properties as of the date of death and I had to figure out values from the 1970’s, 1980’s. That was a lot of fun researching tax record sales as no one had comp books from that old. Basically what happened is the parents in the 1950′ and 1960″ paid off their homes as they could not sell them, the kids inherited these homes and as the home got older, the kids did not have or could not borrow any money to revitalize them. When the roofs went, the water destroyed they homes from top to bottom, I actually saw trees that grew from basement level to above the roof (3 stories tall) destroying the masonry brick work as it grew up the house. I actually appraised the only house on a street with 59 board up…..the guy had his own block. All this happened because the taxes were so cheap, people paid them and the city could do nothing, after a while Phila got smart and started to take these home back and demolish them, as the decades went buy, the are was made viable again, mostly due to Temple University buying them along the blocks to the west of Broad street, It took many years to repair this section of North Phila. and other areas of Phila. Please don’t talk to me about the principal of substitution like I am some idiot appraiser. Please do not talk to me about fraud, I reviewed appraisal everyday for 5 years for the big funders in this country and saw fraud every day. I was asked by these funders to handle license revocation cases against these appraisers. I was asked to go out and pretend to be doing a 2nd appraisal for quality control when in fact I was there to find out if the borrower was going to actually renovate the house or if he was thinking of taking off to South America with the money. When I said the renovated ones were selling for 40k and the average house were selling for 20k, A kitchen back then only cost 3-5 k, a bath, 1- 2 k, windows a few K, carpets, painting, blah blah blah….I consider you one of the more intelligent appraisers on this forum. But if you never appraised North Phila back in the mid 90″s then you have really no idea of what you are talking about. Let me know.
Sure, point taken and my bad. But tone is important. Given the complexities there is still an adequate space to presume confusion all the way to calamity of errors. The presumption that presence of racism was absolutely confirmed is not an accurate consideration to answer complex valuation discrepancy concerns. Appraisers are walking targets for lawsuits, justified or not. There is a constant conservatism in appraisal methodology from a substantial portion of appraisers. ‘Both parties being well informed’, holding to an altruistic definition of ‘market value’, uninhibited application of the principals of substitution, all of that. The sad truth is that there are winners and losers in daily market activity and agency is not as reliable as NAR, mortgage lender groups, and other groups portray it to be. It’s important to maintain positive image but also at some point the entire industry as a whole may need reformation. It is a slippery slope for the appraiser to accept any blame. These are systemic institutional concerns which no one person created and no one person can be blamed for.
Perhaps a better explanation from your story would be value in use arguments, as obviously the value in use benefit in those locations would be highly subjective. The stories of what people have gone through to manage those neighborhood blight areas in many states is remarkable. I found some of the more interesting stories to be related to investors ‘how they traded these homes like baseball cards’ for tax write offs. And the more positive stories of urban renewal, community gardens, amenity investment, which over time greened up the urban landscapes and brought people and businesses back. Don’t you know it, the moment that happens, the vulture capital predators sweep in and capitalize on the ‘strike zones’. We’ve got that in CO now and every time one of these big corps purchases for investment, that’s one less home which will turn over in the future, as they seek to hold these in perpetuity. Additionally the big corps outpace individual investors since by scale and volume they can and do employ entire crews who’s full time position is refurbishing and prepping for rental again. Then they gain more speed and leverage by writing off the expenses which via scale are substantial enough to fund the next purchase. And now there are also corps whom are focusing on manufactured housing exploitation. CO pushed this community purchase co op program but so far it’s been a failure at deterring hostile buyouts, as something like only 2 in 50 community attempts have been successful.
We’re on the same page on this matter, except for who to blame, which is what I hope many appraisers and outsiders looking in may come to realize. If we want stable neighborhoods and successful home ownership, we can’t expect the average individual to need to compete with global corporations just to scrape out a buy, and neither can we presume that higher taxes and higher home prices will help anyone in the long term either. Racism as nothing to do with this. These government people, so quick to blame the appraisers, so blind to the harm their corporate sponsors cause and how corporations are a much stronger influence in housing values than people like realty agents or appraisers could ever be. It’s all so disheartening, reduced availability, rapidly climbing prices, loss of mobility, artificial rates, etc.
And that’s when the real predators strike like progressive ideology creeping into public institutions and people often find themselves between a rock and a hard place with no way out. They rule by decree and not popular vote. We’re personally thinking of going broke trying to send our girls to a christian private, which will cost us $15k large per year just for our two girls. From the gangsters to the crime, a sanctuary state, rising taxes, corporate monopolies consuming everything they can reach, homeless explosion, living in some states is becoming untenable. The rise before the fall and one day all the value could be lost just like in those other states. Nothing new under the sun and the end result of an excessive government is predictable and apparent in locations where this game has been played long before. History repeats.
If we’re going to coin the end result of this activity as racist, whom would be more to blame, an individual whom slaps a value number on properties, or these incredibly powerful groups whom drive the housing markets and set policy? Get ready for RESO and total consolidation of MLS systems which is coming soon, and not coincidentally will be managed by the exact same corporate housing investor groups. People are going to be competing with tycoons from around the globe just to pick up single family units, and due to technological changes, will be able to not only beat the affordability, but also will get to the deal faster from a half a world away. “Modernization of the appraisal industry”, is not something which is going to help the average consumer and it won’t do anything other than further empower big corps. This is a hard sell and they want in. If they have to slander the least represented group in real estate to get there, that’s exactly what they will do. Argue or apologize about appraiser racism until the wheels fall off, that is not what this is really all about.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/03/03/magazine/08foreclosure.ready.html
https://ncrc.org/the-new-york-times-the-great-wall-street-housing-grab/
https://www.ksjd.org/podcast/ksjd-local-newscasts/2021-11-16/coloradans-have-been-purchasing-their-own-mobile-home-parks-to-keep-them-affordable-but-the-resident-owned-model-also-comes-with-significant-challenges-and-limitations
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/01/04/corporate-landlords-silicon-valley/
https://www.denverpost.com/2021/09/23/colorado-mobile-home-park-complaints/
Also, Chris, sorry about the accusation, I just can’t hardly believe that people are buying into this argument and participating in the directed narrative. I’m more along the line of thinking that we should be shifting the narrative towards credibility and underlying financial motivations. As they say, follow the money. It’s a bait and switch. Appraisers can only be not racist if we’re pro corporate and pro technological replacement of our services. Who’s buying this? And whatever if there are bad appraisers out there, they won’t last long. Pay them no mind. Like many others whom may try to engage in this ruthless unforgiving over regulated appraisal industry, they will continue to come and go.
Politian’s have the obligation and legal duty to predict or lead their constituencies directions. We must support our leaders based on their proven history rather than their claims. STUDY, VOTE, VOTE for the school board, the dog catcher, the council members and mayor and all your leaders.
1. Paragraphs. (Seriously-we WANT to read what you have to say. It’s harder without paragraphs).
2. Not one example of racial bias by appraisers cited…though many reasons contained in your own post for (a) not making loans, period, & (b) making location adjustments if comparing to outside the area sales.
Chris, you aren’t the only appraiser who has ever (regularly) appraised in economically distressed neighborhoods occupied by minority populations. Let’s not conflate the effects of very long-term corrupt political leadership with the alleged appraiser’s bias.
We have it out here too. For example, Maxine Waters doesn’t live in her own electoral district. Her constituents appear to be ok with that.
Pardon my Gramer, I attended California schools, and didn’t learn no better. She didn’t either.
We all probably need editors, and or secretaires, but that’s expensive in time and monies.
I apologize, as said before I ain’t perfect, but getting the word out is important.
How right. Supply Ain’t always in balance with demand.
Look at used cars today. Buyers are frequently offering new car prices for five-year-old cars.
Cap Rates differences offer a huge potential for cheaters and Politian’s and careful attention for the Appraiser
twenty years ago, I made a bridge loan, to bring a house into condition enough to qualify for an FHA . Seems years before the lady had received a settlement from an insurance co and bought a house. Her relatives all moved in with her and trashed the house in a couple more years and she had to SELL to get rid of the relatives and trashers. I loaned $10,000 ,10%, ten points and was paid off in 60 days.
Am I a crook did I cheat anyone, am I a racist (they all were white honkies) is all my spelling correct?
It’s not bad for an appraiser too loan money if his grammar is the good.
P.S. I didn’t get an appraisal and I paid an agent a finder’s fee, maybe it was 30 years ago, rehabs are much higher now.
So there are no incompetents or appraisers that are conservative because they think it helps their liability? It always has to be racism? Perhaps you should look in a mirror.
“They literally hated me because I was born in the north. While this is 35 years ago, we all know that racism is alive and well in our country, the story I just read, that appraiser is from the deep south”……Need to read your comment. The nerve you hit is referencing the South as being raciest in the past and now. Generalizing is what the Politicians do based on isolated narratives and stories. I can’t correct the past, but I can make sure that narratives like the one you present are pointed at as isolated instances and not the population as a whole. Out of close to 65,000 Appraisers in the Country, the number that are racist’s are, by percentage, no greater than those of any other profession, and probably less so.
Yes they are isolated cases, thank you for making my point Dale. And I will say it again, it was the only 1 I have ever seen in 30 years. Its always that 1% that ruin it for the 99%. As to the southerns, I have spoken to enough of them over the years to know that racism is alive and well. I have a lot of fun talking to them. I love the psychology of talking to them and hearing what they actually think.
Wow….
List me as skeptical but there have been so many false racial hoaxes over the recent past that I cannot believe someone could be that stupid to write such a letter as an appraiser. Almost always the hoaxer has been a person of color. Has this letter been verified as accurate? Or did Maxine Watters and/or her staff write a hoax letter for political purposes? I have a real hard time believing this story.
Are you living under a rock? I think you are. Because if you think for one second some appraisers are lnot ess than professional then you are living under a rock. You make a comment that’s been so many false racist hoaxes, which ones are you referring to? Justify the comment that you just made, give us an example, just one. I dare you.
1. Tawana Brawley; 2. Jessie Smollett, 3. Abeena Horton (Fl), the claimants in Indianapolis (State already cleared them), (4) two Asians in Minnesota-one complained against the other Asian appraiser (state already dismissed); cases in Berkely, as well as Oakland, (Im not counting the currently pending case in federal courts about Mill Valley up north; the televised ‘low value due to race ‘ case in Canada (ABC TV)…and far too many more to count. You wanted one? Look at media headlines over past ten years about alleged race-driven incidents and you will find at least half were proven to be false. You wanted one example? Here are several. There are dozens more. Heck, just follow the societal path of destruction that’s surrounded Al Sharpton all of his careers.
Chris, there is far more racist activity directed against White and Asian people by Black people, than there is against Black folks. COULD there be racism by White appraisers? Sure there could…but not one credible case has been brought forward. Not one.
The ‘whitewashed higher value’ scam articles are largely the result of ABC and an activist journalist (like award-winning activist reporter Julian Glover) ignoring all other plausible explanations other than unproven racism.
Some of us refuse to cave into the lie or agree to ‘solutions’ that entail some activism group being given grant money to pay themselves high salaries. Maxine Waters is reported to be a very nice, cordial Congressmember in person. That unfortunately isn’t the MW who media shows us at home in or adjacent to her district. Her career was built on racism and cant survive without feeding it.
Hello Mike Ford! Good job remembering a number of the prior racial hoaxes. I’ll add that black race car driver confusing his garage rope pull for a hangman’s noose. Took 15 FBI agents to investigate. Yes, all these current accusations against appraisers have not one documented case of racial discrimination. A racist or biased appraiser would not last long in the appraisal profession. Lender clients would stop hiring them after too many complaints were received.
Race, race, race is all these lefties have for an argument. If this is such a problem then why have we not heard one word about it since the 1930’s when the federal loan programs began? Or since the 1960’s when the Fair Housing Laws took effect? Because it does not exist until the lefties occupy the White House and Congress, that’s why. Call me skeptical again. Will
Racism and prejudice exists in the world, its all around us. Its been here for millennium, since the dawn of man, it is what led to our survival of our species. If you think for 1 second that a racist or prejudicial appraiser would not maximize his negative adjustments and minimize the positive adjustments and low ball a house because he/she is in fact have racists and prejudice tendencies or just maybe a bug up his ass that day, (maybe he/she doesn’t even realize them), And I am taking about not making it obvious of course, because appraisers in general are not that stupid to be caught. But to say there is no racism or prejudice in our profession is just not realistic. We appraisers are trained not to be prejudice, but that does not mean we ALL are not every time a report is written.
Will….”Because it does not exist until the lefties occupy the White House and Congress, that’s why” Prejudice exists in the world, it all around us. Most don’t even understand or realize they are being prejudice. But to think the appraisal profession and every appraiser is immune to being prejudice is just crazy. Sound to me like you are a little prejudice against Lefties. That is just my opinion in understanding human nature.
I’ve got a ron paul video on that one! Political correctness, subjective interpretation, etc. There is no ‘right’ to never be offended.
Michael Savage said it best: “Liberalism is a mental disease”.
Thanks Will,
Racism still exists.
A HUGE part of it exists on the part of POC against white people. It also exists with POC against other POC different than their own race. Heck, one complaint AGA had to deal with involved an Asian owner complaining against an Asian appraiser who happened to live in the area in question.
Back in 1934 FHA DID in fact promote racist policies in appraisal. EIGHTY-EIGHT years ago! Very few current politicians were even alive back then. None saw it first hand.
Those claiming 30 to 50 years experience in federal government certainly had a hand in either promoting it (racism), prolonging it, or failing to deal with it effectively during their sinecures at the federal feeding trough.
I haven’t seen it in appraising…ever. I haven’t seen a lot of it in RE Sales largely since the early 1970s (& I started back at a time when numeric coded 3×5 cards referenced races of different areas, and when steering was routine). Fair Housing Act was still pretty new, and once it was understood, the practice ceased.
Even as a raw, 20-year-old new agent, I knew such coding was wrong and showed opposite races to any area that had a house they wanted to see, that also fit their economic profile (as divulged by THEM to us in pre-qualifying appointments). Race was NOT a pre-qualifier-ever. Income, DP and DCR were.
And there is a case of a black appraiser being sued by a black homeowner for discrimination.
Bad apples in all professions.
It isn’t the 1% of Appraisers that ruin it for everyone – it’s the leftist overreach trying to make something out of nothing.
People ask me all the time how to make their homes more valuable. I say, get your neighbors to pay more for their houses. Doesn’t matter what race the buyers are either, but “where” they are buying and how much they are paying. STOP THIS NONSENSE. I predict it will last until this coming November and will then disappear.
What a great way to get better neighbors!!
https://www.naappraisers.org/resources/Documents/2022.02.24%20NAA%20Communication%20to%20M.%20Waters%20and%20Staff.pdf
Related. Was free surfing appraisal topics and found a simple short national association of appraisers letter on this matter. And a funny picture, why not. Appraisers are people with vulnerable positions too. We face the same challenges everyone else does. An appraisers median earnings figure is often far less than the people we provide services to, a regular middle of the road salary. The handful of big earners skew this bureau of labor statistics figure slightly high. Rich people blaming poor people because their home prices are not high enough. How are poor people better served with higher prices? Cut the racial component out, these are not sensible arguments. Injecting a color coded optic does not make the argument valid or sensible. It’s a tax grab.
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/appraisers-and-assessors-of-real-estate.htm
great pic!
These comments have a lot of racial overtones.
1. How is this helping?
2. Are there any solutions to this problem?
3. Why aren’t appraisers more organized. Why is there not a standard price for appraisal’s NATIONWIDE like the VA?
4. Why have AMC’s been allowed to dictate pay?
5. Why hasn’t anyone addressed the fact that red lining minority districts is the reason for all of the perceived bias?
6. Why haven’t homeowners been made aware of the appeal process?
7. Why do lenders have so much control over the appraisal process?
Anyone can lowball an appraisal if they want. Don’t act like it can’t or doesn’t happen. It shouldn’t, but it can.
There is good and bad with everything, in every profession. They want us to attack each other and not the problem. We need thoughtful solutions and a way to jointly present them.
8. Why has the tech industry been allowed to dictate appraisers operational methods for best practices and optimal liability protection? The tech industry is doing more harm than good.
FNMA has no problem advocating for amc’s, whom shut appraisers down. But mysteriously neither the FNMA nor the REVAA group has ever advocated for appraisers in recent memory.
I posted the REVAA publicly available tax reports on the scope creep thread from the other day.
I keep hearing all this ‘show us your taxes!’ talk. So yeah, take a look at those! I want to be ‘non profit’ too! They’re making a damned fortune! Seriously, are they actually meeting the definition of non profit? If not, they should have their 501C status revoked.
Please be specific. The entire issue pertains to bias. Of course there are “racial overtones”. It doesn’t make them improper.
Pushing back against repetitive lies is not counter productive. Nor is it racist to defends oneself or our profession.
The “solutions” are to quit pandering to lies and liars. Every single publicized allegation of appraisal racism has been researched by myself or Mary Cummings and many others. Not a shred of credible or objective evidence has been found to support a single claim. What is found in each case is a recurring theme where the second higher appraised value (after white washing) is just assumed to be the correct one.
How much more organized do you want us to be? Which organization do you belong to? One of the pandering ones, or AGA?
A national standard fee is a violation of the Sherman Anti Trust Act. There IS a requirement for reasonable and customary fees with zero enforcement now that Louisiana caved into the FTC.
Oddly enough one of the now defunct complainants used to brag about being the first to implement a national one size fits all fee.
Currently it is the lenders rather than the AMCs who fix prices in advance.
The current discussion draft legislation proposed by Maxine Waters has THE hidden solution to almost ALL appraisal issues we have faced over the past eight years including the false racism claims.
That solution is elimination of TAF and ASC and conversion of ASC to the proposed new FVA.
It is the ONLY way to impose uniform operating conditions on appraisers, lenders and AMCs alike.
The bill has other defects including a faulty premise of bias, BUT if ASC morphs into a full Cabinet Level Agency like HUD itself, then literally 90% of all appraisal issues and concerns can be relatively easily remedied.
We are always fighting from behind. Creating a new federal valuation agency would facilitate proactive timely solutions before issues get out of hand.
Thanks Mike!
Hi Ms Gilford
If there are racial overtones it is because the topic is fully focused on race by a variety of interests focusing it on race at a federal and variety of state and local levels. That includes President Joe Biden and House Member, Waters (whose draft legislation to correct the issue I support).
1. I have no idea what you mean.
2. We’ve discussed, promoted and activated for solutions to appraisal problems of various types since at least 2014. Many, have done so much longer. ( If you are an appraiser you may want to also join a FB Group called 100% Appraisers Group.)
AT THE PRESENT TIME MEMBER WATERS proposed draft bill to create a federal valuation agency that has the best hope to solve 90% of ALL the problems facing appraisers from fees to pressure, to uniformity of enforcement. I’ve just summarized eight years of effort in that statement.
3. Getting appraisers to join anything is twice as hard as trying to herd 75,000 cats all located in different states into one state, while fighting laws that prohibit talking to each other, and where half the cats are owned by people whose best interests lie with keeping cats disorganized and a certain amount are themselves, predators.
Despite that we formed an Appraisers Guild that is part of the OPEIU of the AFL-CIO, and when we have a consensus of appraisers (back to cats again) we have achieved a variety of things. Some big. Some routine.
Fully 50% of my time is spent assisting Guild Members defend themselves from (usually ) erroneous or outright fabricated complaints at state or federal levels.
BTW Price fixing violates the Sherman Anti Trust Act. We have however advocated for fair fees. We (and many others) caused the Dodd Frank Act to include a provision requiring payment of customary & reasonable fees. (It’s actually worded reasonable and customary but nationally appraisers tend to use C&R anyway).
There are numerous articles in this blog dating back to around September 2015 outlining a suggested national METHOD of establishing reasonable fees based on the civil service pay scale. Appraisers objected to it… or at least the visually ‘vocal’ ones did. That includes some predators I mentioned earlier. Those who benefit from low-fee appraisers and appraiser puppy mill operations.
4. AMCs don’t actually dictate fees. Banks and correspondent lenders do. They quote a fee when a loan application is taken. AMCs use to bid them, but then Coester VMS invented the one size fits all national appraisal fee. Coester was driven out of business by AGA (The Guild) President Mark Skapinetz, but loan officers continue the practice of citing fees before an appraiser is ever consulted about job complexity.
It all goes back to HVCC and appraisers having been brainwashed now for nearly 13 +- years.
5. Redlining? has zero to do with appraising. We (appraisers) have never deliberately red-lined anyone based on race. Even lenders rarely risk redlining. Though it MAY be baked into FNMA Census tract-driven algorithms for collateral underwriter (also many articles written here on the topic dating back to late 2014 or early 2015).
6. “Homeowners” (actual borrowers of the client) have been made aware of the appraisal process and procedures for an appeal. Some agents (and loan officers) still believe and practice the winning through intimidation philosophy.
Especially when they KNOW the property is overpriced. The average US house price in 2022 is $428,700. AT 6% commission that’s $25,722.
More than enough to incentivize people to be dishonest or forget whatever morals they may have been brought up with. (apologies for formatting errors)
maxine waters is a dullard. on behalf of california please accept our apology for foisting her on y’all. sorry!
For clarification, I am not the “m ford” posting without any further identifier. My email and linked site will almost always appear (barring rushed posting). Typos will usually be found in my phone posts.
What? Someone is name borrowing here? Coincidence or cheap play? We’ll ask moderator to ask them to pick another handle.
That’s not necessary. Posters can use whatever handle or name they want.
If I see something that I feel is necessary for me to clarify or disassociate myself from, I can do so as I did here. Most people that are regular posters here know who is anonymous for long-established reasons of privacy (yourself), & those who may be posting deceptively.
I still believe in free speech, and am not big on censorship.
I agree
Apparently, his name is also Mike Ford but he’s not an appraiser. He’s a realtor.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateagents/56d5d42d8a13600100d68730
Sorry, please excuse. If there is a coincidental name association. Well, there are two Mike Ford’s out there. Had thought that was purposeful but if not, we welcome the additional poster. Thank you. Please remember to click not spam if these notifications land in the spam box.
Maxine Waters will chair investigating committee to look into fraud of Sam Bankman Fried, her friend & donor to her campaign…
The fix is in…
https://twitter.com/ReigningCoins/status/1593343475432316928?s=20&t=zM8M3A76fzMpwPSyd3TPaw
Maxine Waters investigating her friend’s FTX scandal is like the fox investigating missing chickens in the hen house.
Maxine Waters blew Sam Bankman-Fried a kiss after a Congressional hearing last year.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/worse-enron-new-ftx-ceo-slams-unprecedented-failure-corporate-controls
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/bankman-fried-secretly-cashed-out-300-million-during-ftx-funding-spree
I don’t know, too soon to tell. When it comes to the money of the rich and powerful, they tend to be slightly more diligent with investigations, research, data gathering, use of qualified experts, subsequent accountability. This guy would have been better off looting that much tax payer money, as opposed to losing the funds of rich people through investment scams. Government program losses would have been a budget write off instead of a federal investigation, filed away within the hour.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
Debt clocks, faster than ever.
Why is it being promoted appraisers (specifically white appraisers) are biased when Realtors and city/town Assessors are not? Realtors take listings in the same market areas as appraisers and Assessor’s obviously arrive at a value estimate for tax purposes yet there is no mention of them in any complaint. And why are the examples being referenced refinances and not sales? Could it be disgruntled homeowners that are trying to obtain financing for more than their property is worth? It is so “in-your-face” obvious what is going on here, yet no one chooses to recognize it.
PJ It is a combination of reasons. The shortest answer is that it’s most broadly aimed at supporting claims for reparations for Black Americans.
On a case-by-case basis, the original Florida case (Abeena Horton) appears after all the information is in to have been a hustle to promote her own company’s new AVM product which purportedly was going to end subjective human discrimination by using AVMs.
Beyond that, if you have ever had any dealing with “Mitigation Fund Managing Social Justice Warriors” (typically in the “Environmental Justice” arenas), you’ll know they seek to extort money from deep pockets.
Example: BNSF proposed a half-billion dollar project in LA/LB that would have updated old diesel locomotives and yard engines with cleaner technology and electric generation wherever possible. BNSF had set aside over $3,000,000 toward mitigation funds for the usual suspect “social justice” organizations…including new ones established specifically to fight that particular project.
Managers of such ‘mitigation funds’ can easily expect to pay themselves $150k to $250k per year. Ostensibly for environmental education (such as teaching others how to run the same cons). I’ve written about this under CFASE at mfford.blogsdpot.com (scroll till you see maps and words CFASE).
No credible objective source or organization truly believes White appraisers are systematically biased against Black property owners or borrowers; or more recently that an Asian appraiser was biased against another Asian property owner.
Like so much in politics today, the claims of systemic racism are built on lies or very old (circa 1934) federal policies. A few politicians are left over from the pre-civil rights act days, and some current politicians were mentored by some of the older, more egregious documented racists in Congress.
It was easy for the President to confess that the government has been guilty of systemic racism for years. He was a willing participant in it!
Today, honest debate and verification of claims is almost non-existent. Legislation is passed not based on need, but rather on self serving interests and whatever emotions can be stirred up in support of it.
It’s why I support Member Waters Bill, no matter how much I despise the tone used to describe its need. It achieves the elimination of TAF and replaces it with a single-entity Federal Agency where MOST of the ills of HVCC and AMCs can be eliminated. Federal agencies can be corrupted as we have recently seen.
However, a federal appraisal oversight agency would have to apply laws uniformly across the USA…which is NOT the case today. Those that know me also know my politics do NOT lean toward supporting Member Waters or her party as a rule.
That is an interesting take on this Mike, thanks. Had not thought of it that way. Lessor of two evils?
I don’t know though. Look how susceptible the small group was to corruption and influence peddling.
It may not be realistic to presume a federal agency would withstand the pressures any better or differently.
But then again, you’re the legal expert. You should write another article on the possible merits of this, perhaps paint it in a different light for further debate?
Thanks.
Baggs I have had relatively long-term interaction with one of the parties that could (possibly) be in a position of influence in any such new agency. He is trustworthy.
I have no higher praise for a person.
In the past, he had cautioned against the risk inherent in the heavy hand of the federal government getting too deeply involved. I suspect that he has also seen the handwriting on the wall. No guarantee that he’d be the eventual agency head but I think he’d necessarily be a serious contender.
What started as a lesser of two evils actually turns out to have the probability (in my opinion) of resolving nearly 90% of ALL appraisal complaints.
From undue lender pressure, to below C&R fees, to enforcement of same, assigning unqualified appraisers based on fees, phony state complaints to justify appraiser shopping, trial by media smearing instead of USPAP compliant administrative processes, lack of FTC support fighting price fixing by banks and AMCs, financially unstable AMCs owing appraisers tens of thousands or even millions of dollars in unpaid fees, sidestepping proper appraisal requirements, form driven practices rather than USPAP compliant purposes, and ambiguity in interpreting federal policy requirements.
I believe it would also likely result in greater upward mobility for licensed appraisers.
PJTMC nailed it.
with the house being reshuffled a bit we can hope she gets sent back to her district where she can peddle her BS to those who elected her. her bona fides are such that she is not fit to chair a homecoming committee at a clown college. calif has a long history of foisting braindead hacks on y’all. as always, i’m sorry, it wasn’t me.
m ford with no email… If you are a Californian, then you already know that no one except leftists or progressives can get elected in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Long Beach, or San Diego. The numbers are simply not there. Those regions in turn control the entire state.
The formula was simple: create dependency. First, by freebies and later by rent control, affirmative action, lack of border enforcement, and racial disharmony deliberately ginned up by politicians including Member Waters – look for the old news video where she and Danny Bakewell of the Brotherhood Crusade stopped non-Black workers from cleaning up riot damaged debris after the 1992 Los Angeles riots.
You and I or anyone else speaking disparagingly of Member Waters (& most other pols) won’t get changes made. Appraisers have been fighting for a few specific major concerns for nearly ten+ years now.
Member Waters Bill is the closest we have ever come to achieving near-complete success in solving most of our professional impediments in one fell swoop. Unfortunately because of who she is, those that are not on the left have no inclination to support anything she proposes.
Now, when the GOP takes over in January, it’s not unlikely that THEY will seek to eliminate the ASC instead of the TAF. They’ve tried it before.
Is there a check box for political influence on the 1004 form? Should the TAF work toward more check boxes.
Mike are you out knocking on doors for your Candidate, I got too old for that kind of stuff.
Now I just pick on my own kind from a great distance
Don there are no boxes on a 1004 form for political influence. We sign a certification that we have not been biased already.
TAF should dissolve itself. They do NOT represent either the American People, any semblance of a Public Trust (never defined anyway), nor do they represent the interests of appraisers. Member Waters Bill would have replaced this purely private organization with the power to effectively create real estate appraisal LAW via USPAP auton adoption in many states, with a new federal agency that at a minimum would have to assure FIRREA, DF, and appraisal laws on federally regulated transactions are uniformly enforced.
Don I’m 71 years old. My door-knocking days and running for political office are far behind me.
I do however continue doing volunteer work FOR FREE from 10-40 hours per week on top of my own appraisal business on behalf of the AGA.