Another Appraisal Waiver Request
Another Appraisal Waiver request has been sent to the ASC. This time from City Bank and Trust in Oklahoma. The bank is claiming a shortage of acceptable appraisers in the area.
Their solution:
“Our bank has on staff an individual who has maintained a Certified Residential Appraiser license until April 2017. This individual has provided acceptable appraisals and evaluations for the past 20+ years. He determined to allow his license to expire due to the rather burdensome CE requirements and the distance to and from approved course within the state.
With the educational requirements, training process, number of hours required by the state, there is very little incentive for an individual to pursue obtaining an appraisal license. Most people cannot afford the time it takes to become licensed. Additionally, it is more difficult to find people in the Oklahoma Panhandle desiring to spend the time and effort to conduct appraisals in this sparsely populated part of the state.
Speaking for our bank in particular, we believe we have staff in the bank with lengthy experience in knowing our community. They have a good understanding of our local market, develop and document values and trends on an ongoing basis and are competent to produce evaluations and appraisals sufficient in nature to assure reliable valuations of real properties.
Therefore, we respectfully request that we be considered for a temporary waiver pertaining to the certification and licensing requirements.”
See the letter of request here.
VaCAP, along with many other appraisal organizations have sent a letter to Jim Parks concerning the Appraisal Waiver request from TriStar Bank. TriStar Bank is in Tennessee and requested a waiver a few days ago.
See the letter here.Â
We are concerned this could become a fast growing trend. If the ASC grants these waivers, the door will be opened for all others to follow. Now, more than ever, it is time for appraisers to come together. Get involved with your coalitions and other professional organizations. Contact your State and Federal Legislators. This is our profession and we are here to protect the public. Appraisal Waivers do not protect the public!
To join, donate, volunteer and support VaCAP, click here.
- The New Con: Hybrids, Waivers & AMCs Threaten Public Trust - December 16, 2024
- VaCAP Supports Shane Lanham’s Legal Fight - September 10, 2024
- It’s Just Responsible Journalism! - February 21, 2024
Why did the appraiser NOT use online education like McKissock to get his CE–something deeper going on here. If you were not planning to totally leave the profession, why would it not be in your best interest to invest a little time to keep your license active?
My point exactly!!!! Something smells a little fishy here.
The panhandle of OK has 3 appraisers. Three. Now go look up the area that is the OK panhandle. Furthermore, in OK we can only take half of our CE on line. Before my partner retired we would travel to the panhandle to provide CE. Now the people in that area have to travel to OKC, Dallas, etc for CE which is a hardship for many.
So before you judge ….
Nothing fishy Mandy Dellevoet
Is the appraiser licensing board in Oklahoma honest and equitable to the appraisers of the state? There seems to be a lot of suspensions and revocations of licenses in Oklahoma.
They appear to be more interested in “gotcha” technicalities than actual USPAP violations.
In fact, they and most states like them don’t seem to think its necessary for THEIR reviews to be USPAP compliant at all. Think of it. The state enforcement boards make no attempt to meet the minimal standards that the Feds consider necessary for federally regulated transactions.
License fees down in your state? No problem, just coerce more consent stipulations and impose $5,000 and $10,000 fines.
MEMO to states: “USPAP does not require perfection. Compliance is always measured in the context of intended use and user. Peers are specifically defined in USPAP. Y’all should start using them..
Additionally, USPAP was never intended to “get” appraisers. USPAP is guidelines. In Oklahoma the state “reviewers” are not required to maintain a work file and it is considered perfectly acceptable to call the appraiser names and verbally abuse them during the hearing. But what can we expect from a board where one of the members refers to him/her as “the hanging judge”
I know some of the folks over at ASC read this blog.
You cite yet one more example on top of the half dozen other cases of extreme abuse by regulatory authorities I discussed with them. Not to mention the several dozens more AGA has documented.
States do NOT FOLLOW USPAP in conducting reviews. Many don’t follow their own state laws. Why do states feel that they don’t have to meet minimal acceptable standards required for FRTs? Did they overlook the parts that say even where USPAP isn’t legally required, it SHOULD be voluntarily followed? For Gosh sakes, these are MINIMUM standards, not onerous burdens!
AGA rcentley asked TAF for an invitation to its Investigator I; II, and III training classes in Florida to get a better understanding of how they are instructing state regulators. I’m told its usually reserved for state investigators but sometimes an exception can be made if one is willing to provide an impartial course evaluation.
Just need your home states ok for some unknown reason. Like that will happen! Still waiting on decision. I urge every other coalition or professional peer association to do the same.
Lets find out exactly what they are hiding from the public.It might explain why appraiser investigators like California’s John Schmidt feels its ok to commit perjury under oath, multiple times while on the stand; or why recently (inexplicably) early retired Elizabeth Seaters thought its ok to completely ignore facts and fabricate case “facts” by innuendo rather than actual evidence. (Yes, AB these allegations are matters of public record and I will make the full DVD transcripts available if requested).
Annamieke, The ONLY reason a government employee (appraiser) would be allowed to not keep a work file is that it would be discoverable in court cases -unless you are in California where only the AGs side gets to use subpoenas in ALH hearings.
I’ll be writing more on how administrative hearing laws across America stack the deck in favor of the state AGs, and how there is NO DESIRE whatsoever among AGs to get to facts or truth. They are only interested in their win-loss score card. That’s a topic for an article all by itself.
The real fault lies with regulators and legislatures that have allowed implementing rules to be written in favor of the state rather than to promote any level of justice.I don’t think they do it purposely. I think it is a systemic flaw that they may be unaware of. A carry over from another era when it was still ok for governmental agencies to abuse the public trust.
Ironic how agencies hiding behind the noble goal of protecting the public or preserving the public trust have to completely disregard the spirit of the U.S. Constitution in doing so. Administrative Law Courts don’t seem to be bound by the Constitution. Who would have guessed?
Annamieke you are not alone in being subjected to ‘slanted’ perceptions, assumptions and prosecutorial ardor. I have many friends that include MAIs, SRAs, ASAs and various other backgrounds that also had consent stips simply because the cost in time and dollars was too great to defend first alleged offenses. None knew that would make them automatically presumed guilty of any second accusations.
BEWARE appraisers-all it takes is one disgruntled seller (or agent) that is not even a client, to set the ball in motion.
PS-If there is any public record of hte Oklahoma Board Chair or any other member identifying themselves as a “hanging judge” then they should be immediately terminated.
Prejudice and bias do not protect the public r preserve the public trust.
I heard this board member say it as did a few other people
No it doesn’t protect the public trust, just like not informing the appraiser of the suspension start date who had to hear it from a ckient and had to have several files reassigned, thereby causing a delay in the borrowers’ loan process.
Good point Mike
No it is not.
Yet another one! Annemieke if you can provide any kind of specifics at all it would be greatly appreciated. Can email to me direct. mike@mfford.com if you dont want to post here .
The reason I ask is that it is time to compile a list of all state enforcement agencies inconsistent and or incompetent application or interpretations of USPAP in enforcement proceedings.
Seems many, if not most do NOT follow USPAP in appraisal reviews related to investigations. The enforcement agencies, 10 act like they have a vested interest in finding and tweaking technical omissions (insignificant and no substantive in context of intended uses). With less than half as many appraisers as in 2007, agency budgets are impacted.
Entire system is stacked in Agencies favor, and has little to do with finding substantive oversights rather than looking for “gotchas” unrelated to non client complaints.
That is what I thought!
I just sent you a pm
Government is there all the time, not just when it’s convenient for us. Charge enough to make it worth your time.
Why didn’t the appraiser attend seminars and meetings of professional organizations? I have to travel 150 to 200 miles with a good part of it curving mountain roads. I have driven through the OK panhandle and it has good, flat roads. Professionals stay informed regardless of the difficulties.
1. I suspect he is non existent
2. His inactivity may not be voluntary
3.. He’s incompetent and to stupid to pass even USPAP renewal courses?
We are supposed to believe that he gave up this wonderful appraisal career and professional recognition just so he can do unregulated “evaluations” instead?
My guess is that they asked the parking lot attendant to do it first but he had too much integrity, so they asked Banking Executives, where integrity & principles wouldn’t be a problem.
These are legal decisions, where is the discovery? Shouldn’t the lender include documentation about how they’ve put out ads in the newspapers, tried to pay premiums to source appraisers, whatever, what have they done other than write a letter requesting an exception to the law which applies to every other lender in their area? This is a power play to get ahead of the competition and once one does it, all the rest will follow like dominoes. In CO lenders sourced appraisers from out of state to service their needs in this location. This bank has zero connections outside of their home town, I simply do not believe it. Those VA appraisers in Alaska hop on boats and planes to do appraisals, I’m not going to feel bad for highway drive time in the heartland. Only in real estate, you can’t make this up.
Every time a bank does this, every licensed and certified appraiser in that state should sign up with that lender so then the lender can no longer say they don’t have enough appraisers. They just don’t have enough appraisers to work for $200. The word needs to go out to every state coalition so they can get the word out to all the appraisers in their states. Lets fight these lenders at their level. They obviously don’t care about our bottom line, they only care about theirs. Appraising is how we feed our families and put our kids thru college and pay our mortgage. As much as we would like to think the system as it is will make the right decision. Well that is a load of crap. The system is broken. If we want to continue to be able to make a living as appraiser’s we need to fight back and being nice about it does not get anyone brownie points.  If a lender asks for an exception in our state let all of us know. Then we all need to sign up with this lender. Lets get the word out and fight back against these lenders. They messed up the real estate markets all over the US(and some say internationally too) and single handedly cause the crash of the economy. If we stand by and do nothing this time, then we are all just as guilty the next time it crashes. We may be small but we are mighty and unified we can make a difference. There is strength in numbers. And if we really want to show these lenders we can carry a big stick. No orders should be accepted by any appraiser in the state from these banks. If they can’t get any loans completed it could hurt their bottom line. Â
Whatever we do, we need to be organized and stand together.
I like that idea! Everyone within say an hours driving time (to two?) write them and commit to appraise for them at C&R fees.
Candy, That’s the whole point. They do not care about us! When we have a bank that illegally sets up fake products in their customers name, others that set up/buy AMC’s that take half of appraiser’s fees and now are going to push for PIW’s do we really need a hammer to hit us on the head to figure it out?
Absent a state mandated union there will be no cohesion to any boycott effort. Free market principals apply and consumers dollars will continue to drive the market. The lender has no ‘right’ to lend. If they’re unable to source talent to comply with checks and balances systems, they should be allowed to fail and another allowed to rise up in their place. Fractional reserve lending allowance continues to accelerate the market.
Check out this banks numbers here
Baggs, doesn’t it strike you as strange, that the only appraiser union in the country (I don’t count SEIU & its selected government employee appraisers) has never called for, or even suggested appraisers strike?
We have urged individual clients that have publicly proven themselves to be dishonorable be boycotted, or at least contacts made minimal.
Appraisers do not want a strike. Appraisers will not support a strike. There may be other traditional union methods of opposing unfair or abusive tactics but unless the personaities of appraisers change drastically – striking wont be one of them.
I was on a one man amc strike back when that wasn’t cool. I’m currently on a low fee strike. Soon I’ll be on a hunger strike if these desk managers don’t stop constantly trying to short their appraisers. What’s strangest to me is the way otherwise decent Americans feel it’s acceptable to treat appraisers like dirt, simply because we’re not direct members of their team. Shame on the lenders and their associates for not respecting the golden rule. My name appraiser. I am professional punching bag. Pay me, that is my only reward and only motivation I have left to stay in this ruthless heartless god forsaken industry.
Lol.
Baggs, I don’t accept that people that can turn their sense of morality on and off like a switch when they go to work are ‘otherwise decent Americans.’ They are pond scum. There’s a huge difference between honestly motivated people seeing the ‘line’ of propriety in slightly different locations than there is from pond scums belief that there is no line, and that if their were a line its ok to hide its location from everyone else.
This industry attracts the most aggressive, that’s what’s difficult to convey to people. The day after waivers abuses will be instantly rampant. Tunnel vision to the pot of gold. They don’t even work weekends, trolls in cubicles, somewhere in the sky. Wait strike that, I need continued orders.  Better play nice, that’s the only way to appeal to someone not qualified to understand what I’m talking about in the first place. My life is a catch 22.
These banks are probably headed by a republican; they feel entitled to get anything they want as along as the republicans are in control. Both states whose banks wrote for waivers are red states; actually are few real republicans left as they have been taken over by the tea party, who represents these hillbillies. I guess they think it takes no education to develop an opinion. The koch brothers funded the tea party and they are now represented by the libertarians whose motto is “I got mine, screw you”; they are like the billionaires who manipulate, cheat and pollute our waters like the koch brothers who want to build more oil refineries, but EPA rules are expensive; since they have the money from their big donors, nothing is happening but tearing down protections we had like the Consumer’s Protection Bureau, EPA, Health and Human Services, HUD, etc as Bannon and his followers get what they want which is power (because they already have tons of money). and their goal is to “deconstruct the institutions” America has developed since its beginning, and up to the time when congress stopped working for the people and served their donors exclusively. All the money, time and experience I have, including a designation have been trashed. All those libertarians think they should be able to make mega millions without limits! This is just the same environment that caused the great depression. The American Institute of Real Estate Appraisers (AIREA) was formed to protect the citizens from financial fraud like exists on Wall Street. As long as citizens are making money in the stock market, then they won’t do anything as long as they are profiting.Capitalism needs limits to what one can do to make money, but republicans, funded by wealthy donors, ala Citizen’s United, and Fox news, Limbaugh, Breitbart and other fake news sites are able to brainwash their followers, I have very little hope that real estate appraisers will not be destroyed in the greed fest led by trump, who is the biggest con artist that ever hit our political landscape. I would like a waiver of any requirements, but I follow the rules set forth by USPAP which came from the AIREA; now the political organizations who now take credit for making appraisal a real profession with real education and high standards has become a joke. The Appraisal Foundation has on their web site a claim that they are the foremost authority on real estate appraisal…. tell me another lie, but I am not a Fox hound, and I can smell a rat after almost 40 years in appraisal and 50 in real estate, so I can see right through bias, and these banks think they can get even less accountability because the citizens will bail them out again; that is what we call a “moral hazard”. The AIREA got contaminated by the Society of Real Estate Appraisers who were bank appraisers and that is the problem; the two organizations have joined in 1990, and the merger made us lose ground when the AIREA held the “high ground”. Many think they abandoned the residential appraisers; actually, licensing dilluted our designations and lobbyists who were highly paid by realtors and banks won. We are just not acting in our own self interest, and we don’t have enough money to fight Wall St., banks and realtors all of whom are wanting a blank check from the American tax payers to allow them unfettered greed. I’ve had clients like trump who owned big trophy properties, and they lied to me; experience helped me recognize this and I took their info, checked out their comps, accepted or rejected them, and kept them in the workfile; if it was a court testimony, they were in my “sales not used” file so if the opposing attorney asked me why I didn’t use 123 Main street as a comp, I already had it in my file and could say it was too big, too small, too far, too dated, or too different in some important way. If you think we can practice this profession ethically and profit, as long as there are people with lesser standards and ethics, no limits to what a bank can do to secure a loan, and while private Fannie and Freddie dictate the forms used, methods to steal our data and co-opt our licenses by the pimp AMC model; greed will win the day, and we will be bailing out banks again for their greed. Â
Rose FIRREA was passed in 1989. Banks, AMCs and especially title companies have been whittling away at us for years. Its not going to be helpful to throw partisan accusations around.
…says the proud Republican Union Organizer. America has grown beyond traditional labels, even if the parties have not.
I’m a daily infowars listener. What’s it like to be a parrot in a cage, screeching red blue red blue? Do you need a political cracker or something? Weaponized media is real.
The coalitions and other organizations are all over this topic. If you are not part of any organization, you need to know that others are working very hard for YOUR BENEFIT. Please get involved. We are all appraisers and if we do not come together as a profession, we will not have a profession. Please get involved.
What he said.
Our profession is checks and balances. Are we the only independent group left in the entire lending community? Based on the substance of the request I think a fact check is in order. Another poster mentioned the possibility the individual staff appraiser in question may not be able to renew. We’ll need this individuals name please, and the zip codes of this location to run the standard appraiser availability search. These actions are a clever way to redirect the entire appraiser income pool towards major corporations and unregulated technical staff. Tech wizardry at it’s finest. Have faith in tech, because we’re writing god and faith in man out of the books now a days. Pretty short sighted and selfish of the bank to never incentivize the staff appraiser to train anyone for the future don’t you think?
As I mentioned elsewhere, the Oklahoma Panhandle is covered by 3 appraisers. For other appraisers to go to that area to work is not only expensive but also difficult. The Panhandle is not covered by MLS and the only way to get data are sketchy tax records and local realtors. The latter are not cooperative at ALL, at least most of them, especially with “outsiders”.
All the more reason to have a professional appraisal completed by a qualified, licensed appraiser. The tougher the property, the more qualifications are needed. If there is no MLS, and only 3 appraisers, how many sales and transactions occur in this area? Maybe 3 is the sweet spot for the market forces of supply and demand. I don’t know the area, but I can certainly infer that with no MLS and only 3 appraisers, it is a very low populated area with very few transactions.
Parts of the panhandle is economically very active. These 3 appraisers are very busy.
Well if that is the case, more appraisers will cover that area. It is just the natural course of things. If that does not happen, perhaps there is more going on behind the scenes to keep other appraisers out. Not accusing, just suspecting based on your comments.
Yes, they choose isolation. And now they can deal with the consequences of that.
Then if all three hired just two trainees there would be nine in the area. Problem solved!
Incentivize the problem! I detailed to an agent today; appraiser populace down 130k from 10 years ago. Agent; sounds like you’ve got lots of work then. Me; No, it means I’m more likely the next to go.
You are a city boy, aren’t you?
Not really, but perhaps by some standards. Regular suburbia and If I have a choice, always drive away from the big city, never towards it. Denver approaches daily, we’re focused on an exit plan.
PS to all other posts; Annemieke I am so glad that you’ve chosen to start posting here. I think you can contribute a lot. We won’t necessarily agree but that’s one of the nice things about this blog. We don’t have to all agree. Welcome.
I’m sorry to have to say this, but do you want a little cheese with that whine. Being myself located in a panhandle state we have a county that is 45 min just to hit the county line from our office, the MLS info is non-existent, the county is not on-line so you have to stop in on every trip (Mon-Fri only) and two appraisers in that area retired leaving just two others. If Agents do not cooperate then 1) that is against their own interest and 2) I go directly to their Broker and get exactly what I need. Now when work comes in for that county our office will charge a C&R fee with the added expense and our clients are well aware of what is going on in the county because we tell them, plus they can’t get anyone else and so they pay our fee. If you want an easy career don’t be an appraiser, go get a job working for Target or McDonalds.
Anniemeke you’re talking about external factors. Progress does not keep up with locations, it is locations that must keep up with progress. Looks like the fruits of such feet dragging are finally coming home. If the lenders have had a tough time sourcing appraisers that’s their own fault for failing to incentivize the supply to meet the demand. They chose to use a staffer for 20 years rather than supporting an independent network and apparently that guy never trained anyone. And this is per your own statement, also a fault of the realty community for failing to work together for more effective data access programs. That’s not the consumers fault and the consumer should not have to forgo essential checks and balances systems to cover up for lending and agent community errors. If the lenders care to loan 100% of their own money and not rely on federal backing, they’re free to loan how they want. If they are to participate in federal programs they are supposed to play by the same rules as everyone else. If a community shuns ‘outsider’ influence, they will eventually become isolated. That’s how they want it, give it to them. Drop off of the fdic programs, get off fractional reserve lending, and see how long this bank can last in isolation with complete accountability and no federal backing. Time for logic, excuses are a dime a dozen.
The bank involved said there were only two. Only a 33 1/3% error. I see Oklahoma CIty is around 450 (487?) miles away. Not close enough to be practical. On the other hand, Both Kansas and Texas are much closer, and as the bank itself said they HAVE had appraisers come from there.
If they truly have a 6 to 8 week turnaround time (that’s what it was all over when I got into business in 1986); then before they go to waivers that will drive every remaining appraiser in the Panhandle out of business Oklahoma needs to start issuing Temporary Practice Permits to the out of state appraisers that will go there.
Appraisal waivers requested by one bank don’t only apply to this bank, or to commercial appraisals. IF granted, they apply to ALL BANKS in the affected area and to ALL appraisals – residential AND commercial.
Oklahoma is not as cut and dry abuse as the one in TN was/is. I didn’t check all surrounding cities either; and foolishly I only checked commercial appraisers but this applies to ALL appraisers so I think its helpful to set a 100 mile radius around the affected city and then see what the numbers are.
Before waivers are granted, if the volume is high enough maybe the requesting banks can enter into a contract with an appraiser to relocate there temporarily; guaranteeing enough work to make it worth their while.
There are a lot of alternatives before we just jump to “Evaluation” alternatives allowed under legislation passed in 1989.
Annemieke if professional appraisers have trouble appraising there, then how reliable are unregulated “evaluations” going to be performed by banking staff?
Like most appraisers with more than 25 years experience, I cut my eye teeth on getting data from local brokers and government agencies. Its how it was done ‘in the old days’.
Since it is difficult, then the fees should reflect that. Since there is no viable online data exchange, then turn around time has less to do with few appraisers than it does with lack of data adequacy. They should EXPECT to pay higher fees and have longer turn times there.
By the way, if “Big Data” is so scarce there, then AVMs would not be a viable alternative anyway. The senior banking staffer would have no way of meeting ALL the FIRREA “Evaluation alternatives” requirements.
The truth is that AMCs and banks all across the country have gotten together and said “Lets try it out and see if we can get waivers.” (source the TN Commissions statements at their hearing when they were notified of TriStar Banks request). Ostensible the guy on the end of the panel is both an appraiser and an AMC owner and he was pointing to his own observations from attending banking and AMC conventions.
IF the highly localized shortage is real (and it seems to be), then it would seem like direct contact with NAR, OKs state Boards, and public media ASKING workers to (1) either accept longer appraisal times, or (2) to COOPERATE with outsiders brought in to help THEM with their needs is the solution.
M Ford; Winner winner, chicken dinner. As always, you cut straight to the heart of the matter with professionally applied logic. Are you a vulcan or a star trek fan or what gives, your logic is undeniable.
Bs
Hmmm. I sometime have to rephrase these things so I don’t get too confused. I’m getting really old and decrepit according to all the Big Data I see.
The bank has some guy on staff that USED to be an appraiser. That was before he stopped being an appraiser.
Those pesky license requirements, like relevant ongoing education and performance in accordance to required standards just really proved to be too inconvenient for him.
He is not presently qualified or competent to appraise anything related to a federally regulated transactions but we did give him an impressive executive title.
My only question is “Why can’t all appraisers in all states and territories be given the same waiver from standards and accountability this bank is asking for?
That will fix the shortage, fee issues, turn around time, and uncooperative appraisers because we could all give opinions from the comfort of our desks for a couple of Moon Pies and an RC Cola*.
(*RC cola may also be waived in event of sugar or sugar substitute price increases of more than 1% in any ten year period. The Moon Pies compensation requirement may not be waived nor reduced to less than two in number under current C&R fee requirements. Reduction in the size of each pie is still permissible at the discretion of the clients).
It’s good to see so many appraisal organizations working together.
Personally, I don’t think CRN is helpful to the profession nor looking out for appraisers’ best interest. Cross reference the Network members and determine for yourself which is which…
Collateral Risk Network Members
I cannot believe the comments in this thread. Y’all really shouldn’t comment without knowing the details and understanding the circumstances.
It appears you may be suffering the effects of myopia, likely brought on by isolation. Just saying….
Well, the letter from the bank to ASC is supposed to explain exactly those details. Being professional appraisers we are all capable of verifying the germaine stated claims ourselves. IF this bank and all others in the Panhandle have legitimate claims about shortages, then let them make their case…and then hold it up to public scrutiny.
For a non appraiser to actually believe that distance is prohibiting access to professional CE for appraisers demonstrates their severe lack of first hand knowledge regarding the qualification processes at hand. Last time around I used career webschool and that was cool, just a non stop multiple choice approach and repeating modules if you don’t get it, time consuming but rather simple. This time I’m using mckssck and am in around 700 for per diem classes. If these guys get a waiver for using appraisers, I want a waiver to pass CE for at least a cycle.
Well I must be fair and update this statement. Per OK appraiser above, must take half CE offline. You know what that is pretty awful. But please inform me why you don’t charge enough to make it worth your time, to the point the standard requirements become ‘hardships’? If your government is not working well for you and is acting like a bully, get in there and push back. We The People. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. And to follow my comments in similar related threads; The lenders are very short sighted for not helping the appraisers get access and incentivizing a more robust appraiser populace, but instead they take this weak spine crybaby need a waiver approach. Where is my waiver, where is my bailout, where is my subsidy? If the lender can’t play by the same rules as the rest of us, out with the old and in with the new, off with their heads. They’re not lords, they’re not elites, or the privileged class, they’re just lenders. Let them participate in the free market like everyone else or let them fail. I’m ready to go to OK today to provide those services. I’ll only charge 4x my normal rate of $550 per report. Incentivize me and I will go there and get reciprocity, and even be willing to train someone as I go. Reality check, it’s a free market system.
Woah! My crystal ball was glowing this morning and my wookie senses lit up. There is going to be a brand new petition for appraisers and it’s going to be bigger than the hvcc era. We’re going to be unified like never before through a common cause and common threat. Stop the waivers! If there is a crushing blow that can dismantle an entire industry of 70,000 independent American real estate workers, that’s likely to be it. We as a country are focused on creating jobs, not outsourcing the jobs to the already employed with tech giants, likely overseas, casting off vital and long standing checks and balances systems for the sake of convenience of lenders.
What do you think of this one? Per the Congressional Research Service, June, 2012.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22953.pdf
/Â The Housing and Economic Recovery Act (HERA, P.L. 110-289) included a provision designed to increase the independence of appraisers. It prohibited mortgage lenders, mortgage brokers, mortgage bankers, real estate brokers, appraisal management companies, employees of appraisal management companies, and any other people with an interest in a real estate transaction from improperly influencing, or attempting to improperly influence, the development, reporting, result, or review of a real estate appraisal in connection with a federally related mortgage.&
The October 2010 rule contains five major provisions. It prohibits coercion of appraisers to influence the appraised value of properties. It prohibits appraisers and appraisal management companies having financial interests in the transaction. It prohibits lenders from providing credit if they know beforehand of violations involving appraiser coercion or conflicts of interest.
The October 2010 rule is broad. The covered transactions that it applies to are extensions of consumer credit that are or will be secured by the consumer’s principal dwelling. This includes home equity lines of credit. The rule is not limited to appraisers. It also applies to any person who makes a valuation of real estate for a covered transaction, including real estate agents. &
The FIL makes a number of substantive changes and clarifications to permitted methods of collateral valuation by banks. It states that automated valuation models and similar technical systems cannot be substituted for an appraisal when the transaction requires an appraisal. It prohibits covered lenders from relying on valuation methods that do not provide a property’s market value, such as a broker price opinion. &
The agencies stated that the independence of the appraiser is compromised if the borrower recommends the appraiser or bank’s loan production staff selects the appraiser. The FIL requires banks to separate their loan officers from the staff that selects the appraisers. (My addition: By moving to waivers, evals, and avm’s, the lenders are circumventing rule sets and could then be in control of selection and result process. They should also be prohibited from selecting or running their own avm, eval, or other ‘appraisal substitute’, and perhaps that could be argued based on these rules, they should be prohibited from doing so.)
And some other jargon in there. In the end, mention of limited denial lists and such. So I suppose if we move to evals, then HUD will have to respond with a new denial list for certain eval software, build even more bureaucracy to have a new tech staff to analyze eval results in leu of traditional appraisal process, and so on, and so forth. This seems like an unnecessary effort when over 70,000 appraisers remain. We need to replenish the ranks with a reduction of operational pressure and constant financial and working stress factors. The new standards of 48 hour turns, 1 week total allowance, fee bidding, re assignment, selection primarily through automated methods for fee and turn time, irrelevant grading, having to appeal to unlicensed often inadequately informed people to source appraisal orders, it’s all misdirected and counterproductive to the true cause of the appraisal valuation industry, which is protecting the public. Protecting the public and their continued access to lending availability to fulfill the American dream. If lenders are simply required to use appraisal services more rather than less, that will promote a renewed vitality in the appraisal industry and solve sourcing problems. Lenders created sourcing problems themselves, they should not be allowed to opt out of the requirement as a result of their poor and irresponsible business practices pertaining to dealing with appraisal professional servicers.
All this regulation is not about the protection of lenders, it is about the protection of American lending consumers. Waivers are not necessary and do nothing more for lenders than redirect their regulatory compliance and allow them to circumvent existing rule sets. Appraisers are or can be made available to any given lender in any US local or US abroad territory, with the right and fair financial incentive and fee structure to support relocation and appraiser business growth. If a lender can source mortgage brokers, they can source appraisers. If they can source underwriters, managers, ceos, even regular clerks, they can source appraisers through similar and familiar processes. The popular lender approaches to sourcing appraisers have resulted in a remarkable attrition of over 130,000 appraisers in a 10 year period. This attrition of professional servicers is a clear representation of abuse of power and abuse of intended process compliance. I urge any person in a position of decision making authority on this matter to become better educated and consult with appraisers whom are truly independent and not beholden to lender or management company interests, before reaching a decision. Also I believe one body should not be in charge of this decision and waiver allowance should require more than a letter to the ASC, it should require approval from the head of the CFPB and all other regulators whom may be involved in the securitization process with the lender or lending entity which requests a waiver. A few limited persons should not be in charge of the future of an entire industry of hard working licensed professionals. Consumers whom present to lenders with good credit and low risk factors should not be denied access to appraisers for convenience of the lender. More valuation security is better, it was not very long ago the regulatory bodies were arguing for second appraisals provided by human valuation professionals. I do not believe that an evaulation or substitute for human appraisal services can maintain similar independence or critical standards to mirror the existing checks and balances which professional appraisers provide. Thank you. I am a certified appraiser in the state of Colorado.
O.k., I spent about three hours on that research and letter this very morning. Mr Ford and whom ever it may concern, please feel free to use this letter or any content therein as your own. For persons interested in this issue please also read the entirety of the Congressional research report which is linked above, as I have only copied in select portions into that official government report into the above post. Also I have a handful of hvcc era letters from NAR and other interested organizations whom rely on the vitality of the appraisal profession which support the arguments presented in favor of renewing the appraisal industry. There are so many opinion letters out there though, I feel it’s more productive to review the final reconciled analysis reports if the goal is to argue for or against a regulation or proposed change to regulatory structure. Thank you.
Thank you Baggs! Great job. I read and save a copy of the Congressional Research Report linked. I’m a little conflicted in thought right now.
I think Jim Park over at ASC is perfectly capable of impartial and unbiased analyses of a banks purported need for a waiver. His is a small federal agency though (13 total employees I think). Political pressure has to be considered a very real possibility if not probability.
I’ve spoken with Mr. Park on several occasions and I personally do not think he would ever cross the line due to pressure. On the other hand, special interest rewriting or reinterpreting the laws that he operates under is beyond his control.
The evaluation alternatives were written into FIRREA. I don’t think Congress ever expected what they thought to be a prudent emergency measure would be twisted into a tool of convenience for lenders to actually subvert the intent of FIRREA. Not so close to the S&L crisis anyway.
TAF sponsors just appointed a Board of Trustees Member that cites appraiser experience at WAMU, and working for CoreLogic as his credentials. He may be a wonderful person, but I am beyond uncomfortable that TAF would allow the appointment of someone tied to an organization that was partly to blame for HVCC; and another one that is so actively seeking to undermine the integrity of the appraisal process.
I submit that TAF met and long ago passed its Congressional mandate. (1) State appraisal tests were certified as adequate; (2) USPAP was established (it really does not need to be tweaked every two years); and (3) They have crossed over to trying to make real estate appraiser standards and principles match those of non real estate appraiser disciplines. I don’t recall FIRREA telling them to do that. (4) Lack of consistency and continuity in USPAP since 1991 has led to less trust by the public, rather than more.
Maybe its time for a TAF sunset clause. How often do well thought out rules have to be tinkered with anyway?
I doubt there is an appraiser in the country that could or would credibly argue a FIRREA based rationale for changing ‘principles’ or the standards for their implementation according to a two year calendar.
Yet amid all the unnecessary tweaking, twisting, reinterpreting and accommodation of sponsor needs, TAF has never managed to urge or develop a policy that would result in Dodd Frank Act mandated reasonable and customary fee enforcement; OR an economically viable way of encouraging new trainees.
…at least not one that didn’t favor affiliate sponsors &Â AMC advocates.
Thank you. I was searching for an online version of this pro appraiser NAR letter I had saved pdf but was unable to upload. Instead I found that report, probably much better. They’re all beholden to something akin to sponsor and content control these days. Don’t act up or you’re next, that seems to be the theme of the appraisal industry over the last 10 years. Myself, I’ve never been very good at following orders unless they make sense to me personally. We The People, in order to form a more perfect union….. Yes, I really do have a copy of the Declaration and the Constitution on my wall, I review them every time I have a cigarette in the garage. You know what you’re talking about, I just regurgitate legal facts with an attitude. I hope you continue to make strong headway. Thank you.
There is a teensy, tiny, little, infinitesimally small chance I might be perceived by some as having ‘acted up’; strayed from the clone reservation, or not being as cooperative to industry interests as they’d like.
But I’m not sure what the downside is.
PS-thanks, and I keep a pocket booklet on the kitchen table so any time my daughter has a question about it she can find the answer without someone else’s interpretation.
I would suspect, and I am just guessing here, that the ‘appraiser’ who gave up their license did this so they can run all the AVMs the lender wants, using their experience as a guide. No license, no state requirements, no USPAP.
The lender is going to have to do the unthinkable. They’ll have to put out a help wanted sign and compete for labor services. How on earth are they going to accomplish such a complex task?
Outsource.
Game over. That’s not how I thought that would play out. Outsource to whom, by their own argument there is a lack of talent. I’m willing to move to, where was this again? All I need is a salary equivalent to their top mortgage banker and standard relo expense benefits and housing. Fair is fair. If they can source MB’s, they can source appraisers.
Lol – sorry baggs, you would be too expensive. I am forwarding a name from a young lady whose email I received last week.
She started out by saying she is located in India. No deception. I like that. She will do any marketing, typing, appraisal form filling, IT or any other online tasks an appraiser could think of, for only $5.00 an hour.
Not knowing an Oklahoma would need a Girl-Friday to do their appraisal evaluations, I foolishly deleted her email, but all they need to do is google “Linda Andersen, India”.
I know its a huge population, but what are the chances of there being more than one Linda Andersen, native born Indian?
I got a call last week (12-8-17) from an Indian person named Tony Judkin from Infinity International, he said of Rockwell, Maryland. Phone number 443-283-3499 came up on my caller ID. He said they are a “data” company and he will type my reports. I told him I don’t need any unlicenced guy from India who doesn’t use his real name to get involved in my business.
We need to report these incidents to the State offices of Real Estate Appraisers and alert them there are fake, foreign entities trying to capitalize on our licenses, and who are probably owned by banks and other lenders who are preying on us because we have a licence, published on their website. Being an appraiser with a license has provided opportunities for unscrupulous bankers and other crooks to take up our time and waste it with unsolicited offers to take our businesses away. Of course, they can change their names, company names, places of business and try new tricks every time they morph into another con; we are prey. REPORT THESE TO THE STATE BUREAUS!
State Boards have ZERO authority over these people. Even the feds don’t seem to be able to control them. Disregard for ALL U.S. laws because they are outside of U.S. jurisdiction!
Sounds like appraisers need to get behind “draining the swamp”.
Lynette, we couldn’t even get behind a minimum fee formula; we aren’t about to cross party lines to deal with the swamp. Each appraiser is going to follow their conscience on partisan issues.
What we MIGHT do is try to affect the specific issues that affect us directly – regardless of which side ‘created’ or ignored them before or currently.
Have you looked at the population numbers in the panhandle? Regardless, who wants to take on a trainee this day and age
Why would we? Annemieke if there is a point to be made about pan handle population size, why not just make it?
The bank asked for a waiver because there are not enough general certified appraisers ‘that they like’. The burden is on them to prove that contention-not on me to check each surrounding city and then cross check it with ASC to find out how many appraisers call the Pan Handle home..
They have already indicated that drawing appraisers from Kansas or Texas is a viable alternative. Then that is the option that should be offered to them.
As an appraiser Annamieke, why are you so defensive of them seeking an appraisal exception? Are you now employed by a company that provides or wants to provide alternative standards evaluations for banks in the Pan Handle? (That’s not meant as a cheap ‘shot’-I’m seriously interested).
Instead of waiving appraisal standards, why not revise (go back to) practices that allowed us to economically take on trainees instead? If banks and TAF and assorted special interest lobbies actually wanted to solve the problem, rather than carving out exceptions at taxpayer expense, the solutions are incredibly easy.
1. Eliminate the only certified appraisers can train rule;
2. Eliminate the maximum two trainees rule, and
3. Eliminate prohibitions against trainees inspecting “unless they meet some magical one size fits all rule of incompetent third parties. Third parties that appear to have side stepped their primary obligation and mandates, in favor of creating conditions that create the environment in which the spurious arguments of shortage can even float around as if they were credible or responsible real world conditions. .
Those of us that have trained appraisers know they progress at different speeds. My best trainee was ready to fly solo on inspections after the first month. My worst, never did figure out how to measure a house. I have had engineering professors; nuclear scientists, retired military generals and real estate agents as trainees. Let ME decide when they are ready to do field work. I’m the one that has to sign behind them.
“Grrrrrr”
“The three-county Oklahoma Panhandle region had a population of 28,751 at the 2010 census, representing 0.77% of the state’s population. This is a decrease in total population of 1.2%, a loss of 361 people, from the census of 2000.”
Demographics
As of the 2010 census, there were a total of 28,751 people, 10,451 households, and 7,466 families in the three counties that comprise the Oklahoma Panhandle. The racial makeup of the region was 80.26% white including persons of mixed race, 59.46% non-Hispanic white, 1.34% African American, 1.21% Native American, 1.18% Asian, 0.12% Pacific Islander, 15.53% from other races, and 2.78% from two or more races. Hispanic and Latino Americans made up 35.85% of the population.
As of the 2000 census, 7.7% of the population was under the age of five, and 12.5% of the population exceeded 65 years of age. Of the population under the age of 5, 54.95% were non-Hispanic white, 41.12% were Hispanic of any race, and 0.80% were African American alone. Of the population 65 years of age and over, 95.29% were non-Hispanic white, 3.52% were Hispanic, and 0.03% was African American. Of the non-Hispanic white population, 16.45% were 65 years of age or older.
As of the 1990 census, 89.40% of the population was non-Hispanic White, 9.11% were of Hispanic of any race, and 0.27% were African American. 6.72% of the population was under 5 years of age, and 14.7% were 65 years of age or older.
The median income for a household in the region was $34,404, and the median income for a family was $40,006. Males had a median income of $27,444 versus $19,559 for females. The per capita income for the region was $16,447.
Why is America obligated to make exceptions to sound appraisal regulations for the benefit of a small village sized, 3-county section of a state? Is this village sized area so lucrative to banks that they have so much volume a policy waiver is required?
Now that you induced me to check the size of the population, I no longer even believe their claim about the one appraiser’s turn time they like… Unless he or she is driving four hours away to FIND work! Two appraisers for a three county area with only 10,000 households seems like too many to me. How many of those households are sfrs in farm country? How many are businesses and how many of each are selling each year; or refinancing?
In Contrast, the largest county in the United States is Los Angeles County (2010) 9,818,605 and has 895 certified general appraisers; or 1:10,970. That is barely more than the Panhandle on a per capita basis. Yes, it IS more but consider the size and population differences. San Bernardino County which has the largest land area of any county in USA* has a population of only 2,035,210 (2010 census). There are 81 general certified appraisers. That works out to 1: 25,126. That means the largest county in the country has an appraiser to population ratio of almost HALF that of the Panhandle! SB is a 1.5 hour drive for me one way with no traffic (about 92 miles to my folks house); with traffic a one way trip is from 2 to 4 hours. I’m having less and less sympathy for that Oklahoma bank, the more I research this. *Certain census designated regions or boroughs in Alaska have greater land area.
I am not defensive of appraisal waivers at all. I get really irritated when people start making statements and giving their opinions about situations they know nothing about. Sure, lets take on some trainees. From where?? Oh, the appraiser was too lazy to get his CE? Perhaps there were circumstances that prevented him from doing that. I have not been able to get my needed classes for my designation this year for a very legit reason. So ….. if one does does know the reasons why, one should keep their SWAGS to themselves.
Annemieke, I see that your license was suspended and a disciplinary action was taken against you on 12/9/17 and that previous to that you were on probation for 30 months on 7/2015.
Are you the appraiser City Bank and Trust in Oklahoma is referring to in their letter for appraisal waivers?
Carl, I personally have a complaint filed against me from BREA. Ten years ago I had a coerced consent with a non public reproval. In the current case we beat BREA on every single day of a five day trial; They did not provide clear and convincing evidence on one single day..We spent $140,000 defending ourselves from false allegations.
the judge’s proposed order was complete dismissal of complaint against both myself, and AMC involved. The state has chosen to reject the judges proposed order and we will eventually take them to superior court.
Five other states in USA are equally as corrupt & incompetent as my states real estate appraiser bureau & Deputy AG (and I use the words deliberately)
My point is, that accepting any state’s actions as definitive of anything is a huge mistake. NOT ONE STATE in America is (to my knowledge) giving accused appraisers a USPAP compliant review or investigation of their work in question.
I strongly disagree with Annemiekes comments that people have commented without knowing the ‘shortage’ circumstances but I wouldn’t throw mud at her over a suspension about which we know nothing.
Having read the complaint I don’t see where Oklahoma proved their case. (1) Participation was assumed based on use of the royal “we” (as in ‘our company’) in subsequent communications with non clients. (2) Two reports – one in error and the one that corrected the SF error? BEWARE APPRAISERS! Corrections are commonly being used against you! (3) The states ‘expert’ never heard of individual adjustments to comps independent of the amounts per sf made to others? I’ve seen it a lot of times. Where the quality or condition of one property may be better or worse that another its also possible some markets recognize the size differences at different rates. Its not MY method – but then no report has to be MY methods. Sounds like the states 35 years experience appraiser expert is a bit limited in his understanding of anything done differently than what he does. (4) IF VA doesn’t require cost approach then there was no need to provide a site value that the ‘expert’ is opining as being necessary. (5) Did the expert perform and present a USPAP complaint appraisal report or merely testify to alleged ambiguous offenses and omissions? (6) Two contract prices referenced. Wording notes appraisers called this out and said lender didn’t do their job. How is an appraiser accountable for changes or unclear aspects beyond what they are told and shown?
I’d have to see more to definitively understand all the issues, but folks THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU NEED AGA!
There was a lot of mud throwing in the complaint by Oklahoma but NO COMPELLING evidence of violations and the so called expert of their own has a few holes in his own work.
I think we found another reason that the number of appraisers is declining. By the way – note her share of costs? The magical $5,000 across the country used to fine certified residential appraisers.
Folks if you want to see a typical hatchet job by state officials willing to LIE (Yes, Seaters, I mean you AND Schmidt) look up my own license…keeping in mind we won on every single issue and allegation. Not one exception.
You hit it right on the nose. I have 2 attorneys working on my situation.
Mike, I was trying to figure out why Annemieke is not against appraisal waivers. I thought that perhaps she is not an appraiser. So I checked and I found out that she is but that her license is suspended. So I figured if she is the appraiser the bank is referring to, appraisal waivers no doubt would be to her advantage. I was not trying to throw mud at her. I’m genuinely interested in knowing why she is not against appraisal waivers. Wouldn’t appraisal waivers hurt her business? Why hire appraisers if appraisal waivers are granted?
She is not the appraiser that the bank mentioned in their plea for the waiver. OK appraisal standard board seems to be real hard on their appraisers and I suspect that the “violation” is not really a violation but more a vendetta.
Carl, I don’t really care if a bank gets an appraisal waiver. Their money, their sandbox. I am a little curious, however. Why don’t you use your entire name?
Anniemeke, we all know AMCs and lenders peruse sites like these and some of us are cautious of the possibility of being blacklisted or worse, depending on who we anger.
I respectfully disagree with your comment. Appraisal waivers will create unnecessary and unacceptable risks for taxpayers and homeowners. Didn’t we all bailout the banks not long ago?
Yrs we did. And it will happen again. What we shoukd have done is follow Iceland’s example by jailing the bankers and using the money you to help the borrowers.
If you believe in what you stand for you shouldn’t care about who sees your opinions.
Annemieke, I happen to believe and agree with you about standing behind one’s words but life has also shown me over and over again, that standing up for ones beliefs often comes at a price. I’m willing to pay it, but many (properly) with families to provide for have to keep them in mind first.
So far our legal costs for standing up to California BREA’s outright corruption and deception has cost $142,000+-. Now, my fellow respondents and I agreed that if the state ignorantly wants to force us to take them to Superior Court if they continue to reject the Admin Law Judges Proposed Order exonerating us 100%, we will do so.
But ask yourself-how many appraisers out there are NOT in a position to fight back? The entire system is geared around forcing or coercing consent agreements. Not costly, impartial investigations. People sometimes have good cause to remain anonymous.
Mike, I agree. It would be v
Much easier and better for my health if I just walked away from it all. But I worked bery hard for my certification and in the process of becoming and SRA. And I am sick and tired of states getting away with their bullying.
Same here (except for that SRA thingy-I respect yours though).
So JOIN US in fighting against states having ANY discretionary enforcement power of what was originally only federal legislation. With its subsequent rules decided by a private corporation and reinterpreted through an unauthorized entity called AARO whose only claim to fame seems to be as misinformation central and promoting side stepping of USPAP by enforcement agencies.
Understood, Carl. I recall Annamiekes’ name from months if not years ago related to AGA membership solicitation. I don’t think she joined, but I had respect for her loyalty to her own peer association. Like many appraisers, she is her own person – even though in the eyes of others, it may be to her own detriment.
I joined and was a member for several years trying to get a chapter going in Oklahoma. No such luck.
It often takes far more work than one would expect to herd cats. Appraisers are uniquely independent. I think many know in their hearts, a union fighting the battles on a national stage and level instead of state by state is the only eventual solution…BUT we are still catlike in our unwillingness to join a group.
No I am not. I am 30 miles west of Tulsa, many, many miles away from the panhandle. And you really shouldn’t believe everything you read, especially anything that comes out if OKC
I am not for lowering the standards; prohibiting banks from having anything to do with our standards is not good, and this profession needs to be allowed to make those standards without making our businesses appraisal “mills”; each should be done with a maximum of two persons that are licensed or have at least two years of experience; also the responsible appraisers should do their own work, otherwise it is not “their” opinion. This is not a profession that deals with cookie cutters and we aren’t all equal in our experience! AMCs act like we are interchangeable when we all have different experience and we need only two or three categories of licenses.
TAF sponsors just appointed a former WAMU guy and CoreLogic employee to the TAF Board of Trustees. What makes you think banks, AMCs and other disciplines have not been directing our standards for quite some time?
Of course they have
FDIC rules for appraisers. Related;
5000 – Statements of Policy – Interagency Appraisal and Evaluation Guidelines
Appendix A, appraisal exemptions. For particular individual considerations only, and always use an abundance of caution. Throw that blanket covers all exemption request immediately in the trash can. Look, it’s right there, see for yourself, the exact wording. That request belongs in the trash can.
Staff Appraisers are the true definition of pond scum. Cant make it on your own? Booooohoooo
Fritz thats overly broad and inaccurate. I’ve been a staff appraiser. Title company sold our division to one of our marketing people (that I hired) because they were willing to ignore rules (USPAP was brand new) and I wasn’t.
I know many good, even great staff appraisers. We ALL sought staff positions once we were good enough because having predictable income is sometimes a nice luxury. By the way, most staff appraiser positions today have less than a three year life expectancy, so its become much less attractive. Give up your own practice for three years and ten have to rebuilt all over again. Up until HVCC Bank of America Trust Dept. staffers were some of the best in the country. Heck, even FNMA USED TO have good appraisers.
ASC IS LOOKING FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS ON WAIVERS (link below);
My posted comments to ASC; “I believe many others will comment against this proposed folly. So I will simply ask this; if the waiver is granted please require the requesting bank to formally notify its depositors and shareholders of the action and also compel them to include dissenting views from others including appraisers who have been requesting inclusion onto the banks panel of appraisers for some time. Thank you.”
Appraisal Subcommittee; Notice of Received Request for a Temporary Waiver
ASC Special Meeting – April 12, 2018 Tuesday March 06, 2018 The ASC will hold a Special Meeting scheduled for 10:00 a.m. on April 12, 2018, at the Federal Reserve Board facilities at International Square, 1850 K Street NW, Washington, DC. The purpose of this Meeting is to consider the temporary waiver request from TriStar Bank of Dickson, Tennessee. The agenda for the Meeting will be posted here approximately two weeks before the meeting date. If you plan to attend the ASC Meeting in person, we ask that you send an email to meetings@asc.gov. You may register until close of business four business days before the Meeting. You will be contacted by the Federal Reserve Law Enforcement Unit on security requirements. You will also be asked to provide a valid government-issued ID before being admitted to the building.