REVAA No Fan of the New NY AMC Law

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REVAA Doesn't Like New NY AMC LawThe NY State Coalition of Appraisers wants you to to know that there is a new AMC law coming into effect at the end of the month and REVAA doesn’t like it.

Last December New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo signed Senate Bill S9080 into law, effective at the end of this month.

REVAA‘s biggest concern is that it requires all valuations to be performed by appraisers AND invoices must be attached to the report so the consumer knows what the appraiser was paid.

This is groundbreaking for our industry. Let’s hope that the word spreads and the consumer is finally protected!

There are lots of goodies here – just a couple of samples:

  1. Act without just cause to withhold or threaten to withhold timely payment for an appraisal report or for other valuation services rendered with such appraisal report or services provided in accordance with the contract between parties;

(c) Requiring an appraiser to prepare an appraisal report or valuation service under a time frame that such appraiser believes, in their professional judgment, does not afford such appraiser the ability to meet all the relevant legal and professional obligations including USPAP requirements. Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this paragraph, all appraisal reports should be completed within a reasonable timeframe and appraisers may not unnecessarily delay completing appraisal assignments;

(d) Prohibiting or inhibiting communication between the appraiser and the lender, a real estate licensee, or any other person from whom such appraiser, in their professional judgment is relevant;

(e) Requiring the appraiser to do anything that does not comply with USPAP…

Jonathan Miller

President & CEO at Miller Samuel Inc.
Jonathan Miller is President and CEO of Miller Samuel Inc., a real estate appraisal and consulting firm he co-founded in 1986. He is a state-certified real estate appraiser in New York and Connecticut, performing court testimony as an expert witness in various local, state and federal courts.
Jonathan Miller

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Jonathan Miller

Jonathan Miller

Jonathan Miller is President and CEO of Miller Samuel Inc., a real estate appraisal and consulting firm he co-founded in 1986. He is a state-certified real estate appraiser in New York and Connecticut, performing court testimony as an expert witness in various local, state and federal courts.

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50 Responses

  1. Avatar Advocate says:

    So the organization that represents appraisal management companies thinks it is a bad thing to require appraisers for all valuations. You just can’t argue with stupid!

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  2. Avatar JW says:

    Hope this gains traction and spreads to most states that can see through the smokescreen

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  3. Jesse Ledbetter on Facebook Jesse Ledbetter on Facebook says:

    Instead of the course of action the Appraisal Institute and @national association of appraisers have taken of merely allowing appraisers to perform valuations – THIS actually protects the public trust and represents appraiser’s interests.
    Instead, in 2017 on the floor of the Summit, both said they would NOT pursue these types of solutions

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    • Avatar Mark Skapinetz says:

      Well we need an organization to lead the charge and use this law to get other states to follow as well as get it to the right people. It’s time for a shake up and this law can be the very start of it. Appraisers need to throw full support behind this no matter where they are located.

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  4. Lori Noble on Facebook Lori Noble on Facebook says:

    and they did it on the 10-year anniversary of HVCC!! explosion

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  5. Randa Arnold Madden on Facebook Randa Arnold Madden on Facebook says:

    He was the guy who started this whole mess!

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    • Avatar merv Conlan says:

      OMG, can this be true???!!?

      someone who actually knows the history of all this nonsense???

      Nah, I don’t believe it…and I didn’t upvote you, you’ve got enough already, so apparently I’m wrong, folks do know the history here.

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    • Randa Arnold Madden on Facebook Randa Arnold Madden on Facebook says:

      merv not sure what you are trying to say?

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  6. Ross Grannan on Facebook Ross Grannan on Facebook says:

    Chase has been asking for the appraiser’s fee and the AMC state registration posted directly above the indicated value by sales comparison approach

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  7. Kelly Rodriguez on Facebook Kelly Rodriguez on Facebook says:

    So how do we get Ca to follow?

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    • Anthony Blackburn on Facebook Anthony Blackburn on Facebook says:

      Kelly Rodriguez CA BREA has repeatedly said and shown in their actions that their mandate is not for the protections of Appraisers, but only for the protection of consumers. They have pretty much always left it to legislators to come up with laws, after input by special interests

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      • Avatar George St Johns says:

        We continue to seek an author… a legislator that will carry a Bill for appraisers. And there are other things that need this kind of attention.

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    • Shut down BREA and start over.

      Seriously, we COULD draft sensible across the board state legislation that our legislature has proven they will act upon if only appraisers could unite behind a common goal. In California, AI sought and successfully obtained single sponsors to introduce their bills. The reason that they succeeded, is that they made the effort.

      The opposition would have to have a specific alternative plan and have sufficient numbers of appraisers in support of it. California has two state coalitions. I am a member of both. Neither has proposed specific legislation to favor appraisers issues.

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  8. Avatar chris says:

    10 Years LATE !!! While they are making record breaking profits…wonder why ??

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    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Appraisers to this day still hope that the government will save them from their own client management decisions. If appraisers choose to work with amc’s, they should have a clear understanding by now that only 1 or 2 in 10 will be front line appraisers, and the rest will ride the bench hoping for pick me ups the discount cherry pickers did not accept. They will never win on fees, and at the first possible opportunity when demand subsides, the amc’s will be back to their normal approach of selecting by fee, bidding, and playing appraisers against each other.

      Just stop accepting the orders, solicit to lenders directly, and prioritize direct assignment clients first. Word gets around quickly among mortgage lenders that the other outifits whom are not using amc’s are getting superior service, with happy appraisers. And don’t be fooled, every single lender whom also supports va lending knows all about it. On one hand while forcing appraisers through amc outsourcing, they’re also still managing direct assignment via va systems internally on the other hand. Illusions.

      I informally looked at a chase appraisers report the other day. This appraiser just copied dated assessed value record figures for land, had 5 comps with adjusted value indicators 50k+ apart, left the majority of the report blank, boilerplated the rest, and some how still got some silly number like 482 or something for billing. It’s no mystery why when the buyer walked to a new lender, the new lender refused to port that appraisal over and called me in instead.

      The government’s purpose is to protect liberties. The governments purpose is not to save citizens from their own poor management and financial decisions. Work with a middle man, or don’t work with a middle man. It’s a free country and a free market as long as you don’t willingly constrain yourself. I’d rather take my chances always on the edge rather than live under thumb. So far, so good.

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  9. Avatar John Pratt says:

    I am not sure what the problem is with this. If the AMC, Lender or whoever is requesting the appraisal just make sure that you get your full fee. If they order a 2055 driveby and you want to take it, charge the same as you would for a full 1004, if you don’t like the due date (turn time) change it before you accept the assignment. If there are any terms you don’t like change them before you accept the order. The requirement about an invoice is a good idea. The part about paying the appraiser is appears to be useless unless there is a severe penalty, even then how would an appraiser enforce it. There is a simple solution to the payment of the appraisers invoice, I will cover that in a blog within a few days.

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  10. Avatar Cotton Cornell says:

    At least someone see the abuse and destruction these AMCs have caused on our profession. We have allowed these amcs to gain control of a business that is not theirs to begin with. If this was any other profession they would be finding bodies in dumpsters. Appraisers are viewed as disposable and easily manipulated. If you are completing hybrid reports consider yourself the problem.

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    • Baggins Baggins says:

      The most profitable companies in the past several years are those whom provide nothing, shuttle everything, and have others do all the hard work. Sad but true, it’s been going around.

      There is a lot to be said about traditional merits of doing the job yourself, not outsourcing duties, and maintaining a direct customer to vendor uninhibited relationship. Don’t get angry, get even. When amc’s screwed me over I simply turned around and marketed to the lenders directly. “When you’re finished using amc’s, I’ll be available for direct assignment orders.” Most lenders are unaware they’re missing out on access to roughly half of this countries available appraisers by choosing to work with amc’s.

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  11. Avatar Pat says:

    This is way bigger than huge. There is no wiggle room. It appears that AMCs have kept even their own client’s (lenders) in the dark about the truth. This law will shove it down their collective throats that transparency IS consumer protection. All of these alternative products have harmed the states’ abilities to oversee what they were charged with to begin this whole episode.

    The very pretty thing about this is it is much HARDER to get a law repealed than to get one passed, and that aint easy either!!

    Where is the Appraisal Institute on this? The silence is deafening, just deafening. They have no idea who they represent anymore than AMCs do. Why are AMCs so aroused by bifurcated pieces of you-know-what, evaluations, etc. when they are APPRAISAL management companies. Maybe the monkeys are coming home to roost???

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    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Dollar signs in their eyes, and tunnel vision as a result.

      Perhaps it’s coincidental, perhaps not, but there was some rule in CO I believe that if working with an amc, we are required to state our fee in the report. We’ve had several of the major CO based lenders move away from amc’s and have been direct assigning for several years now. Some lenders will run direct in CO, even though they still use amc’s elsewhere. It does not really matter though, these requirements never stopped some of those amc’s from playing bidding games, assigning by fee, and redacting that information in the review process.

      Who’s still holding their breath that anyone else will make a better advocate for their small appraisal businesses other than themselves? All it takes is one or two good direct assignment clients. It’s not rocket science.

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  12. Avatar Koma says:

    Well, 1) invoice will show the fee the appraiser will be (hopefully) paid because most will not be paid until 45-60 days after the report is completed and 2) I already put my fee that will be paid into each report.

    I do like the part where all valuations need to be performed by an appraiser.

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    • Avatar Mark Skapinetz says:

      GA has a law that i wish they would reconsider and take it to another level. Our law is that we must disclose what we were paid in the report. However i’d Like to see invoices attached where it shows the the total cost charged to the consumer and then the fee paid to the appraiser. 90% of the time the fee paid to the appraiser gets lost and the consumer doesn’t even see it. By including the invoice on page one as well as putting the 2 fees within the report would be better.

      I can see it now… The amc or lender gets the report in NY and somehow they only send the report and not the invoice to the consumer. It should be in 2 places within the report IMO.

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      • Avatar Advocate says:

        Think bigger Mark. If the lender chooses to use an AMC, they should pay the AMC. The borrower has no benefit from either the AMC or the appraisal the lender ordered. Consumers should hire and pay for their own appraisals.

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        • Avatar Mark Skapinetz says:

          Absolutely. I’ve said that in blogs I’ve written. It’s like these TECH fees we pay to upload reports. It should not be my issue and I should not have to pay to upload a report based upon your business decision to use a platform that charges you to use it. That’s an expense you should pay for to use it. I pay for my MLS, total, internet, software and so on to run my business. The tech fees are another way for them to make money. Yes we can add that fee to our total fee but why?

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          • Baggins Baggins says:

            It’s a money grab, like most tech gimmicks. Force a requirement, create a need for a third party tech management platform, spend a small amount setting it up, run it in an automated state after that, profit indefinitely. Technocracy is here and it’s not just a conspiracy theory. We’re being hoodwinked left and right through the entire tech spectrum. AI is not being developed, for the reasons people think it’s being developed. Most people are already so hopelessly dependent on tech, it may be too late to save them. The matrix was a documentary?

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      • Baggins Baggins says:

        Good one Mr Skapinetz. We can thank the rels lobbyists for lobbying away a previously proposed hud1 disclosure form which clearly distinguished between appraiser services and appraisal management costs.

        I’ll take your recommendation and add another to it; New FNMA forms should have entries where appraisers must list the names of all persons and companies they may have relied on for informational and development purposes, as well as documenting the distribution of the consumers total appraisal services fee.

        Let’s see here, they used a report typist out of india, used a non licensed inspection runner, paid for a third party amc order management app to capture higher rates of blasted orders, paid multiple technology fees, and discounted the appraisal fee to what appears to be well under 50% of the base consumer charge. Hey, why wasn’t cost savings from reduced cost vendor services returned to the borrowing consumer? This industry relies on pressuring appraisers into the need to use ancillary services. There is a better way.

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  13. I am always for Sunshine. The AMC & Lender skim will show up for all to see…meaning that when consumers complain about the Appraisal Fee…well you can see where this is going. There is also a side benefit to this you might not have realized. Everyone complains that we appraisers are the Delay. Now the Invoice Date will disprove that Lender/AMC CYA Lie…

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    • Avatar Bill Johnson says:

      Why not take it to the next level Andrew? Being the owner of the business who happens to do appraisals, showing a gross appraisal fee to the consumer could still mislead them into thinking we make the big bucks (we do 5 to 7 a day right ?). Without context, (say 50% business expenses, 10 hours per report), and an hourly breakdown, the 9 to 5 W2 consumer is clueless to the realities of the appraiser struggle. To that high cost of living CA appraiser who says yes to $300, pays business expenses, pays health insurance, I say go work for Chick-fil-A ($15 per hour / 18 to $20 with benefits including health). My Pleasure.

      Seek the truth.

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  14. Avatar George St Johns says:

    It’s a struggle to design, build, refine and continue to improve a profession – structurally, educationally, and experientially. And the effort is ongoing.

    Today’s appraiser is a complete professional. They have a defined structure. Education that is excellent and continuing. And there are the millions of hours of applied experience. And they are held accountable.

    These professionals are bound by a code of ethics and by the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice. Why – to insure the public trust; protect the home buyer and home seller. To protect Americas Real Estate portfolio (in the trillions).

    So, thank you, NY and Governor Cuomo. You have given the county legislation that records a common sense conclusion… the best result is when a licensed appraiser is required to prepare an appraisal report or provide a valuation service.

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  15. Avatar Core-illogic says:

    So what does Cuomo have a guilty conscience he’s the one that started all this bullshit. No one ever said a word about the conflict of interest with that guy being on appraisal management boards

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  16. Avatar certresidential says:

    I love NY! It just takes one..(influencer) to set a trend that others follow.

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  17. Avatar SB says:

    As long as AMCs exist……
    EXPECT NOTHING TO IMPROVE.

    If you dont get your Non Lender marketing sh*t together.
    EXPECT NOTHING TO IMPROVE

    Unless you enjoy living in poverty,
    Be PROACTIVE and put AMCs in the rear view mirror.

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  18. Avatar Bill Johnson says:

    Playing devils advocate, when the borrower is required to receive a copy of the appraisal within 3 DAYS of closure, what care in the world are they going to have when their loan is good for 30 years and they can’t or won’t negotiate the AMC/Appraiser split ($)? It sounds good in practice, but their will be NO public outrage as the consumer could care less about the appraisers role in the process (speed bump), nor how much we took home for doing our work. You want proof that consumers don’t care about the appraiser, when was the last time a borrower called or e-mailed you post closing to thank you for your role in realizing their home ownership dream? Want more proof, I just received notification concerning a change in contract price (VA, was $405,000 / market value is $385,000), and there is a 0.0000001% chance the borrower will call to thank me for having the balls to do my job, stand up to the fight (ROV request), agent / lender pressure, etc. that resulted in them saving $20,000 in real money.

    Other benefits may apply under the new law, but until the AMC/Appraisal fee is separated upfront, I see only window dressing to this specific problem.

    Seek the truth.

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  19. Lisa Molnar on Facebook Lisa Molnar on Facebook says:

    Yay come on New Jersey get on it!

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  20. Katrina DeVona on Facebook Katrina DeVona on Facebook says:

    Yesterday I did a final inspection for $100… the seller was charged $175 and not happy! Trying to explain how the fee system works was confusing and I really hope my state, CT, can follow New York’s lead. That way everyone can hate the AMC’s on a level playing field. Thieves.

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  21. Avatar JW says:

    I just read the REVAA board of directors and that’s quite the group of top AMC guys

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  22. Baggins Baggins says:

    Per Randa’s comment above; Related… https://appraisalnewsonline.typepad.com/appraisal_news_for_real_e/home_valuation_code_of_conduct/

    For all appraisers whom came in after 2008 to 2013 sort of time period, they should set aside a few weeks to read the entire appraisal scoop body of articles. This broken record keeps skipping on to the same old beat.

    I’ve clearly disclosed my fee within reports and when I present to the homeowners since day 1 and never ever kept that a secret, no matter whom I was working for at the time. I will not willingly collude with a middle management company so they can rake junk fees in secret. If they were truly providing something of value, why can’t the lender pay them for that separate from the appraisers fee? Fee disclosure rules are a misnomer, it would be a violation of your first amendment right to silence a worker from being honest about what he is paid for this type of labor work. The rules to protect us from abusive corporations have been in place for hundreds of years, all people need to do is exercise them in the first place and you don’t need the government’s permission to do that.

    I think I’ve said that before… They’re all the same. The thing you simply can’t get around is there is a financial incentive to drive appraisers fees down for variable opportunistic amc profit because they are not required to return cost savings to consumers. No matter how hard you try, no matter what approach you take, what counters or rebuttals you give, what you may bring to the table yourself, you’ll never get around that one point which is the quintessential driving factor for all amc’s whom do not use a cost plus billing approach. They have a financial incentive to drive your fee down and pocket the difference. They are not required to return cost savings to consumers.

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  23. Randa Arnold Madden on Facebook Randa Arnold Madden on Facebook says:

    I might add one more comment. This article says the valuation to be completed by an appraiser NOT the inspection!!

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    • Randa, some of us still believe they are one and the same thing. Property condition analysis is an opinion…contrary to sophist bleats by bifurcated appraisal hucksters (including FNMA). It is not a ‘fact to be found’. Market bounds are opinion as well. Also not indisputable facts to be found. Property appeal and apparent marketability are opinions.

      Deciding whether a grey area property is legal; legal non conforming or illegal is also the result of numerous opinions developed in the field at the inspection.

      I think I get (& concur) with the point that they may still have wiggle room. Then again it may not.

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  24. Krystal Kay on Facebook Krystal Kay on Facebook says:

    I hope this starts a nationwide trend

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    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Because amc regulation was so wildly successful at protecting us from these companies last time around…

      It’s up to us individually. Go with it or market yourself and your favorite lenders away from middle management.

      If appraisers can’t beat the middle management sales people, whom are not licensed, do not have industry experience, and advocate against our causes. Well, perhaps it’s time for those appraisers to reconsider if they’re adequately equipped to be the key sales analyst for real property deals in the first place. With salesman, it takes one to know one. Middle managers will just find another way, nothing will really change.

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  25. Avatar Maya benshabat says:

    This is the response i got from an amc – Nadlan:

    quote: Our legal department has reviewed the recent bill, in depth. See bill attached, page 8- line 29 discusses the fee disclosure requirements:

    It shall be unlawful for an appraisal management company to:

    (c) Knowingly fail to separate any and all fees charged to a client by the appraisal management company for the actual completion of an appraisal by an appraiser from the fees charged to a lender, client, or any other person by an appraisal management company for appraisal management services;
    (d) Knowingly prohibit an appraiser from recording the fee that such appraiser was paid by the appraisal management company for the performance of the appraisal within the appraisal report that is submitted by such appraiser to the appraisal management company;
    (e) Knowingly fail to separately state the fees paid to an appraiser for appraisal services and the fees charged by the appraisal management company for services associated with the management of the appraisal process to the client, borrower and any other payer.
    Appraisal management companies shall provide a copy of the appraiser’s invoice with a copy of any appraisal report submitted to a client or a client’s representative;

    Based on the above, the AMC – not the appraiser, is required to separate the appraisers fees. The only requirement for the appraiser, is to attach the invoice to the body of the report. The AMC must then break down the fee for the client.

    Regards,

    Operations Manager
    Nadlan Valuation Inc.\

    does this stand correct? no other amc is doing this

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  26. Avatar certresidential says:

    Reads like this AMC does not want the Appraiser privy to the fee differential – that which is being charged to the Lender by the AMC and the AMCs cut

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  27. Avatar ken says:

    Is there some place in this new law that states the fee paid to the appraiser and the fee paid to the AMC must appear on the order sent to the individual appraising the property. Without this information on the order form the appraiser is unable to determine what true cut they are receiving. Does anyone in this comments section know the answer to this question. Thanks

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REVAA No Fan of the New NY AMC Law

by Jonathan Miller time to read: 1 min