Average AMC Appraisal Fee to the Appraiser
Average AMC appraisal fee to the appraiser: AMCs are taking far more of the borrower-paid fee this year than they did last year.
Appraisers, I recently sent out a message asking appraisers to send me three data points comparing borrower-paid appraisal cost, and average AMC paid assignment fees in October, November 2021 and the same months in 2022 – for SFR assignments. My intent was to provide actual useful AMC-paid fee data compared to what the borrower pays for ‘the appraisal’, without revealing specific fees in any particular location.
Replies to that message were much less than I expected, and only 18 responses came back, with 41 data points provided. I had intended to grid the responses in 6 regions within the US; responses are missing from the North East US, and from South Central US.
The info below is Averages only from 4 regions combined in the US.
Based on this extremely limited data, here’s what was revealed:
Average ‘appraisal cost’ paid by borrowers is $802
Average AMC appraisal fee to the appraiser in 2021: $713, or 11.1% retained by the AMC
Average AMC appraisal fee to the appraiser in 2022: $591, or 26.3% retained by the AMC
What this limited survey reveals is exactly what appraisers have been reporting across many communication platforms. That being, AMCs are taking far more of the borrower-paid fee this year than they did last year. As the data shows, the AMC portion has increased more than double from the previous year.
But the kicker in this situation is AMCs would not be able to do that if appraisers weren’t so inclined to allow AMCs to brow-beat appraisers. The AMCs always whine when assignments slow down, and plead with appraisers to lower their accepted assignment fee – or just award assignments to the appraiser with the lowest bid – just so the AMC can stay in business.
Many appraisers fail to realize that lenders seldom, if ever, reduce the cost of the appraisal paid by the borrower. Actually, the reverse is true. Appraisal costs have been rising over the past 20 years, most notably in the past 10. Then here comes the major assignment slow-down caused by multiple factors. Far too many appraisers panic, and capitulate to the AMC demands to lower fees.
You’ll never be able to regain lost earnings by lowering fees, expecting to make it up by increasing volume of work. That’s probably the best way for you to slowly go bankrupt.
Dave Towne on e-AppraisersDirectory.com
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I solved this AMC issue in my business about 3 years ago. I STOPPED working for AMCs.
Appraisal fees are now down to $465 Net in Tucson, AZ but were $600 Net twelve months ago. So I quit AMC’s last Friday.
The problem with averages is that if you don’t take into account volume, they are meaningless. Meaning, if in one area the fee is $700 to the appraiser, while in another area its $300, you could say the average is $500. What happens to the average when the $700 is from a low volume area (a few a year), where as the $300 fee is by the tens of thousands (urban/suburban)? People of power, and those who want to profit off the AMC machine/scheme lie to enrich themselves.
On a side note, I know appraisers in San Diego County (3.5 million) who are bidding in the two hundreds with two day turn times, and losing out to cheaper and faster.
Seek the truth.
Amen Bill!
And they wonder why folks aren’t rushing into this industry. I bid AMC work at what I consider fair for this area (fairly low that is) and I’ve heard nothing but crickets over the past month. Luckily, I have enough private work and direct lender work to keep the bills paid.
Jim
Ethical dilemma on multiple fronts. It’s difficult to justify the lower fee to an amc, especially in scenarios where amc’s bid and are not providing volume in exchange for the discount. Additionally, appraisers would have more direct lender work if they simply stopped working with amc’s. Every fee quote, it’s theft of services and just plainly incompetent, predatory distribution methods on behalf of the amc. If an amc continues to spam appraisers bid quotes even if one objects, that is a violation of the can-spam act on commercial solicitations. This would not apply if appraisers continued to bid though. It’s so illogical, to treat professionals this way and get quotes from 50+ appraisers to place single orders. If citizens tried this approach with other licensed services, the vendors would laugh them off the phone and say, you have already received how many quotes? Why don’t amc’s and their sponsors like mercury scope appraisal port, why don’t they clearly and concisely inform appraisers how many other appraisers were sent those exact same fee quotes? At what point do appraisers say there is a sensible limitation to fee bidding and these companies have crossed the line. If the amc groups can’t figure out fair uniform fees in any given local 20 years on now, we can’t help them. They’ve certainly figured this uniform fee approach out for lenders and borrowers but curiously still find themselves incapable of landing with consistent fees for appraisers.
Management: Conduct:
must not advocate the cause or interest of any party or issue; (Yet accepting amc work is in turn, advocating for their continued presence because the appraiser provides the amc a thing of value in exchange for the assignments. Why can’t the amc bill separately for their service?)
An appraiser must disclose that he or she paid a fee or commission, or gave a thing of value in connection with the procurement of an assignment. (The thing of value would be the difference in billable amount for your standard uniform lender fees vs the discounted amc fee.)
An appraiser must not advertise for or solicit assignments in a manner that is false, misleading, or exaggerated (Yet the question remains; is the lender direct fee amount exaggerated, given appraisers are willing to work for less for amc companies for similar efforts, or perhaps the lower amc fee misleading because appraiser cuts corners to make the lower fee work.)
Now my direct lenders have made to appraisal fee reductions for a total of a 25% haircut.
Who the hell thinks AMCs are even notifying their lender/clients regarding the precipitous drop in fees?
Diversity will be tough in a profession that is in such upheaval. How many of us would recommend this game to their offspring?
mean, Median, & Mode are all averages and mean something different.
Coming; foreclosures and what a bunch of stuff they will demand in the scope.
I stopped as well, but there are too many bottom feeder’s out there. I tell my local lenders, send me order’s directly and your borrower’s will save at least 25% of the appraisal fee. They say, what about Frank and Dodd. I tell them, you are still allowed to engage a real appraiser directly! I am glad I am getting close to retirement from this shitty profession.
Located in Northern California. We appear to be similar to Southern CA, if we bid over $375, ETA 3 days, we always get “outbid” by lower fees… Sorry, I’m not going to participate in a race to the bottom.
I’m always shocked when I hear California fees. That’s nearly 1/2 of what we were getting in Oregon (up until a few months ago). I can only do 4 or 5 per week. I’d freakin starve. Maybe I’m too thorough, but dang! On top of that the cost of living is quite a bit higher in California. I don’t know how you do it.
California is a sort of state where basically everyone is on some form of welfare program or another. Either they benefit directly or indirectly as most businesses and services are long since co opted to the state. There is no escape, except to join the other quarter million people who left rather recently and pay a state exit tax. Yes, you get taxed for leaving California too. Soon they’ll all enjoy paying billions in reparations fees based on lineage and connection with housing discrimination from a limited defined window in history. Although as expected there is already infighting and the entitled welfare class members are getting steamy about who deserves what, the lineage aspect is already upsetting some, whom are now threatening California they all deserve a million dollars or else hell to pay. These sham social justice programs are basically state sanctioned extortion of the states own funds, relayed to pet special interest groups whom kick half of it back ‘to the big guy’, whomever that is in their specific network. People actually surprised by the FTX scandal and biden scandals apparently don’t understand how their own governments function, even down to the most local levels. As non profits experience record volume expansion, while continuing to be approximately 80% or more funded by the state. Your tax dollars, hard at work.
https://www.zippia.com/advice/nonprofit-statistics/
In my neck of the woods they love fireworks, too much. Now that citizens are prohibited from having fireworks, it becomes the cities responsibility and apparent obligation to fund said traditional fireworks events. I had to write the city funding people and the mayor demanding relief. “I don’t care who’s brother uncle or cousin of whatever city employee is associated with the fireworks company hosting these events, but this needs to stop. We don’t need 3 day firework events every single holiday.” They were doing 3 day runs on christmas in the dead of winter, sounded like it could shatter cold sliding glass doors, on thanksgiving, on every single holiday and then some. And the shows were going on for like half hour or more every time, some were over an hour. Of course the informed citizen understands this is not due to actual consumer demand but rather how certain players benefit from taxation without representation.
I remember the good old days before prohibition, before expansion of the local government. Where citizens had to track down firework shows because cities would skip them for budgetary reasons, and as fireworks were not prohibited, many people put on their own shows on their own dollars anyways. They only did it in July and were not compelled to annoy the hell out of their neighbors and terrorize peoples domesticated animals with rebel yells against prohibition in the middle of the night on weekdays all times of the year, aka the illegal use of fireworks. City likes this just fine though, they fine offenders a thousand dollars a pop if one gets caught with a snake sparkler or pop bottle rocket. That’s why those whom break the law have no effective limitations and just reach for the heavy pound cakes with unlimited husker doos, whisker biscuits, spleen splitters, and whistlin kitty chasers.
No, California is NOT a place where everyone is on some sort of welfare program. You have no idea what you’re talking about. The problem s that we simply have too many appraisers here. When the number of appraisers in California finally drops below 5000, we might be able to make a living instead of being undercut by fools willing to work for nearly nothing. There are too many appraisers here & the lowlife amc’s can always find some desperate fool willing to undercut everybody else. We should not train any new appraisers in California until the total number of appraisers in the state drops significantly.
Don’t know how long you have been in the business, yet in 2000 there were 20,000 appraisers in California. It was tougher years ago.
Now there is approx 4,500 certified residential appraisers in all of California.
So looking at this number of professionals we are already there and you are still complaining about low fees.
The other 4,500 California Appraisers are General appraisers, trainees and licensed appraisers.
I don’t take low fees, a few years ago I decided to do nothing but the rush with big fees.
Most of my work is lawyers and estates but during the refi boom fees were three times the going rate or more as I can produce high quality reports with mls CMA, stats and scatter graphs suitable for court room expert witness testimony.
Improve the quality of your reports and charge more. I say, ……Plan your work and work your plan or someone else has a plan for you.
No, we are not already there. According to BREA website, there were 9301 total appraisers in California as of October 2022. I belong to the Real Estate Appraisers Association (North Bay chapter) & we keep track of the number of appraisers.. Although you are correct that the number has dropped significantly, 9301 is simply too many. My point is that we are less likely to be undercut if the total number drops below 5000. And yes, I don’t take low fees either. I delete the emails from amc’s that offer an outrageously low fee, but it does little good, because there are simply too many others who will take it. I have been an appraiser for 45 years, by the way. I also do non lender work, but there is not enough of that. “Improving quality” does NOT change the fact that most appraisals are needed for lending purposes.
Far too many appraisers “whine” about low fees from the AMC’s. But they themselves will take the lower fee. I’ve made reasonable bids only to be “declined”. I refuse to work for the sake of working. IF ONLY ALL THE APPRAISERS WOULD REFUSE TO WORK FOR LESS THAN $600 PER. You’d get that. I was “offered” to complete full appraisals for <$400. This was a "good fee" 25 years ago. Inflation has taken hold of every aspect of all of our lives. If you're working for this or less, you ARE THE PROBLEM. STOP. Wait out the AMC's. BUT YOU WON'T. "I'll get more work, let others charge more”………………………..sessabmud (backwards)
So far. I have not accepted any work under $650. The bid requests keep coming, and I keep bidding high. I have told them I will change careers before working for peanuts – and I’m working on changing careers in the background. Luckily, I still have a few lenders who have kept their senses with the fees, and are still requiring full appraisals on all loans. Still not enough volume, though. I hope this new career works out, because I don’t think I can stick this out for another round (been in it since 2005).
I did change careers. I retired.
A few years ago, an appraiser told me that she was paid $350 for an appraisal. The homeowner told her that she was charged (CC) $1,100. In my 40 years I have never completed an appraisal for an AMC. My direct lenders pay $600 – $750. One pays $900 for a 5 day rush. One of my clients requires me to bid, it appears I am now being out bid by the bottom feeders. I own my home free and clear, have money in an IRA, cash in the bank, 819 FICO score and I do not have any debt. 2 more years and I am done. I am sad to see what has become of our “profession” however some of the fault can be placed at the feet of some of the appraisers. I am happy my mentor is no longer around to see this disaster.
You and I have much in common, agree with all you said and on the same boat out as you are!
It is a disgrace. I am expanding my non lender work. The AMC companies are keeping a lot more than that in my area! Like 50% plus!
Yeah, we know that to be a fact Poquoson Appraiser. Although Mr Towne had the best intentions with this survey I’m inclined to doubt the accuracy of the results. Especially in responding to an individual educator (Mr Towne) in a private email, I’d imagine many appraisers whom are being used as the towel the amc wipes the floor with, they are highly probable to have felt embarrassed by their actual real world amc fees and would not have responded. He said participation rate was sort of lower than expected, if I recall the original email sub correctly. Some amc’s may be better than others, but especially with a representative trade group behind nearly every one of these companies, there is very little cohesion and uniformity to their engagement efforts. Except that as every single amc out there refuses to bill separately for their services, rather they engage in opportunistic variable amount fee raking, they all maintain a financial incentive to take more for themselves and compensate appraisers less. When working with an amc, cost savings due to appraiser efficiencies are never returned to the borrowing consumer.
In my early experience, a hard money lender propositioned me for discounted fees, using hi volume as an incentive.
We agreed on a short format, and I billed ten a week. His first week went well, and when business dropped off, I increased my weekly fee, reflecting the change.
I finally collected my fees through the small claims court and that client used another Appraiser.
Too some you are an #one guy to others an ass
For the most part Appraisers are powerless regarding disclosure of total fee paid for the appraisal due to the differences in each State’s requirements regarding disclosure. While everyone is free to charge what they think they are worth, a national Union of Fee Appraisers should have been formed decades ago, I’m talking when FIRREA was put into place. If this had happened we might have some adequate representation today. Access to health insurance and maybe retirement accounts could have been organized. The ASA and AI are silos themselves and so many appraisers across the country are not members, these organizations offer little as far as representation. Complaining or sharing information on social media is about the only outlet appraisers have, and look where that has brought us. The banks and AMCs can just roll over us, secretly cutting work off with a stroke of a pen, I would bet most shops across the USA are 5 people or less, individually we are less than feckless, together we could be a gadfly, not great but at least we’d be somewhat of a noticeable nuisance, the AMCs would have at least take note.
Chuck, that’s an older argument which although presented with merit, sort of fell apart in terms of fair uniformity of fees based on a myriad of factors which included both client type differences and appraiser developmental differences. In simple terms we’d have volunteered to stack on a million new expectations, in turn prohibiting many of the flexibilities we may enjoy as appraisers specifically tailor the scope of work to the appraisal problem task at hand. In real world application such a program would inevitably result in unfair price capping because legislation being retroactive to current market conditions would never keep the pace.
The counter argument which sought a similar relief for appraisers, but went about attaining that relief a different way is still what I support to this day; Separation of fees. Who cares what the appraiser charges, because of scope of work and complexity that does most appropriately vary now and then. If we could just take the profiteers hands out of our pockets we would eliminate unearned fee raking and biased distribution in one swift action of simply requiring the amc to bill for their services separately. That of course fell short too, as the amc industry scrambled knowing such a straightforward billing method would mean an end to their braggard claims of record setting business growth and expansion. Everyone knows when it comes to origination, lenders compete for customers with out of pocket hard costs first. They knew that if consumers were transparently informed of the fees, clearly individually described rather than being packaged as junk co mingled fees, many a consumer would have chosen the lender whom did not also include the amc fee when others did not. And that’s how we ended up with ‘the appraisal services fee’, rather than the traditional ‘fee to the appraiser’.
I totally disagree, your response is not really saying much of anything of merit that the argument falls apart. The fact is the banks outsourced an important part of the underwriting process, they should pay for that service. Where the trouble is that service which should be paid by its user [in this case the bank] has become a profit center. The appraisers are not the only victims of this, the consumer is paying, and they deserve transparency. Its not my place to say the consumer should not be charged $800 for an appraisal, they should just be made aware $X went to the appraisal and $Y went to admin costs. Even a basic utility bill in the USA is required to be broken down, its the law. We are probably the most regulated profession in the country, why do the AMCs fly under the radar? The argument is sound, like all things that could help appraisers it falls on deaf ears.
My bad, had confused ‘national union of fee appraisers’ to mean price setting somehow. I reread your comment and did not say that, I had confused with the standardized uniform fee for everyone argument. So yeah, I was off topic but regardless we’re on the same page. Outsourcing underwriting is a new take on this, interesting. Why do amc’s fly under the radar, because they proliferated after most established regulation occurred. Just rule of thumb that in mortgage lending, amc’s are exempt from standards other regulated persons and entities abide by. Those other entities don’t mind prolific junk fee billing and unearned fee raking, they get the operational cost savings at someone elses expense, kickbacks and perks to boot, carve out operations in a less regulated space, aka; amc’s. The companies tasked with bolstering appraiser independence and the liquidity of lending organizations did exactly the opposite, it’s a free for all in the amc world. We had better accountability from one licensed banker to another licensed appraiser. The problem with amc regulations is they regulated the company not the individuals whom work there. It’s just so poorly put together, you have to hire at least one licensed appraiser to run an amc, but if you’re an in house direct lender whom supposedly maintains separation from loan production, you can run the entire appraisal distribution department without even hiring a licensed appraiser. All these lender direct companies hire non licensed people to be administrative and quality control oversight over licensed appraisers. It makes zero sense except as a work around to continue to apply pressure to appraisers. My vote is for individual appraiser licensing, for everyone involved in the distribution of appraisal requests.
Amen! Most of my work is personal, Non Lender and Non AMC work. I will work elsewhere before I take cheap ass fees. I am a firm believer in you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! So for all of you offering cheaper fees don’t even think about complaining in the future about low fees. YOU are the problem! You are making the issue worse for the entire profession. I know YOU don’t really care but WE who respect our profession and the work it takes to produce a credible report do care! Who do we care about? The PUBLIC! The buyers and homeowners out there who are being hurt the most by cheap Appraisers out there who bang out reports regardless of Quality. If you do not like what I have said, Sorry, you need to look in the mirror and respect your worth!
Mary you’ll need to link this article thread on the Appraisers Forum and reddit r/appraisals if you want those particular appraisers to actually read your message though, lol. You’re preaching to the choir but it’s improbable you’re reaching someone new here on this board. It never hurts to toss out hotlinks though, they are free online. It’s how effective organization happens in the digital age; hotlinking to different groups for better group understanding of shared interest content and policy. I stopped using AF because the site is simply not functional for users whom utilize ad block and tracking block software. Reddit functions without that but is full of hopeless appraiser newbs advising each other which amc to apply for and how low they went to get the work. Some of them don’t even understand the difference between an amc and a direct lender. We support your cause of setting appraisers straight though, so surf around and link away. As for the myriad of other appraisers websites, too many are engaged in self promoting and pet client pandering, they won’t even entertain controversial or disagreeable to their position posts. Which is why this site is hands down the most educational and the most open access. Thank you.
I gave up on AMC, some 18 years ago. The AMC business model, IMO, is the closest thing to professional slavery. AMC has hijacked the entire appraisal process from the appraisal professional.
Well said. The vast majority of appraisers are 60+ for a reason; the are praying for retirement and hanging on or they are appraising part time to supplement their retirement. Regardless, this has been a dead end “career” since 2009.
Dude, I went solo in 2009… All this talk of can’t wait to retire from the older folk crowd. Sorry to disappoint but your retirements will not bring quite what you may have expected, as your wealth and prosperity revolves around functional checks and balance systems too. As societal conditions and financial institutions reliability deteriorate at an increasingly rapid pace. I’m glad not to be retiring at this particular point of history.
For once we agree upon something. What I was getting at is this: Both our social security system (which was compromised) and the appraisal “profession” (which was hijacked) suck with regard to income. This is the primary reason for so many 62 to 122 year old appraisers still hanging on, as a means of economic survival. I have yet to reach retirement age (although I quit appraising 14 years ago) and have considered reentering the field many times for part time income. Each time I have come to the conclusion that it’s not worth the time for meager fees that are being paid today.
“a national Union of Fee Appraisers should have been formed decades ago”
I was pushing for this 40 years ago, but I received a lot of blowback from the hardheads who years later did not even want to be licensed. Many of these dimwits are now long gone. My 3 brothers were in a maintenance union in Chicago each month they paid a small fee. In return they received yearly pay increases, bonuses, paid vacation, great health insurance and now they each receive a $600-$700 monthly union pension check to supplement Social Security. It appears that maintenance people were much smarter than the appraisers.
CJK, I agree, but that will NEVER happen. The lenders/AMCs know that the appraisal profession is a very divided group, that can be easily controlled and manipulated. After 40 years in the profession, the division has always been a reality.
Herding cats and herding stupid people is an impossible task.
one more point – the fact that the banks have off-loaded the appraisal to the AMCs, which is part of the underwriting process that the banks should be paying for is a total rip-off to the borrowers. No part of the underwriting process should be a profit center, AMCs have abused their stealth position, the average consumer has no idea who they are yet they are paying them for appraisal services, there’s really no transparency with the AMC model.
U nailed it.
Junk fees. Unearned fees. Fee raking. Profiteering. Unethical billing practices. Improperly co mingled fees. Hand in the cookie jar. Conflicts of interest. Providing a thing of value or gratuity payment or be excluded from fair participation in the marketplace. Collusion. Racketeering. RICO.
One more time; Where the hell does the actual money come from?
Appraisers, Plan your work and work your plan, or some else has a plan for you. In 2020 I decided to only do rush assignment and expand my appraisal work for estates, lawyers and expert witness testimony. What are my fees for non rush fees some lenders ask? If this is not a rush, then call someone else has been my response. This is how I don’t get backed up with low fee work. Having a Brokers license is a plus when representing estates as well. If people like and trust you, they will work with you. Have a plan and work it.
Why is there no talk of AMC is selectively using appraisers that the lender wants the order to be received by. This is 100% taking place.
The illusion of separation from loan product was always just that, an illusion.
Most of this doesn’t matter.
Fee Appraisers will be gone in 5 years being relegated to measuring houses, property inspection, and basic condition reporting. If we’re lucky, we’ll get a 2075 for $25 to verify the subject is still there.
The puppet masters don’t like appraisers or the appraisal process, and the AVM’s will take over and Fannie, Freddie, et al, will do to whatever lobbyists and politicians tell them to do. We are on borrowed time, make the most of it.
Maybe the AMC’s will fade away along with the appraiser.
Many will be gone. But most of us that do direct lender and private work will still be around.
New working opportunity; Hedge funds. Apparently reo is raging but most of the defaulted units are getting scooped up by big hedge funds at the fnma hud and other gse level. Because, like, why shouldn’t multinational hedge funds and investment firms get first dibs on defaulted discounted housing ahead of regular residential interests? These are fungible assets at scale which can serve for immediate income, mid to long term resale speculation, provide constant write off allowances for budgetary considerations, and can be rather easily unloaded to market for larger write downs or write offs, whatever their commercial positions will be at the time. Stability in housing values will never ever be the same, it’s all commercial now. Whistle past the graveyard at your own risk.
I don’t know the current math as everything currently in media is money controlled lie but AMC’s and the Reeva nation controlled 80% of the appraisal volume last year. What is it this year? Factor in their owned subsidiaries and paid lobbyists and you have today’s appraisal atmosphere. Second career. I appreciate you fighting the losing battle against money on behalf on appraisers. Times have past as money pays for it. Reality in next month news, general media and whatever industry will say appraisers are reason values are market fall, value down or biased or racist or low or whatever money pays it to say on that particular day.
Don’t let the man get you down. And don’t believe everything you hear on political theater television. We will fight as long as the battles take. We will believe in liberty justice and the American way forever. One day we will bring justice back to this land, restraining and reducing our government and their sycophants in the process. Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. Every solution we need lies in Article 1 Section 10.
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
It’s my opinion that many many appraisers could file board cases regarding their treatment by AMC’s I. e. the constant hammering on the damn status. Also they’re ignorant demands on “use these comps” Bull Excrement.
Can’t y’all figure out that when appraisers cut their fees, the AMC’s DO NOT???
Now they are making even more off of the appraiser.
Unless and until we file public complaints versus them, they will continue. Don’t ever forget the lender is ultimately responsible for the appraiser and the AMCS just keep the lenders in the dark.
Sorry Pat, we can’t boycott the amc industry twice…
Now it’s your turn to guide your own future, love it or leave it.
I know not everyone is in a position to do this, but if all appraisers stopped taking their work for two months, most will go out of business. Hopefully forcing lenders to change how they order.
I’ve reduced turn time but wont reduce my fee
Good luck to the appraiser that took this one for $250 (that’s what the AMC told me)!
I love that home! Where is it located?
I wouldn’t measure that house for $250!
Too funny they did not check just grabbed the order as soon as it showed up in their email
Hey George,
I think you dropped a zero. Pretty sure you meant $2,500. 🙂
Jim
Wouldn’t touch this one for $2,500. 5-7,000 possibly.
“That’s what the amc told me.”
I have identified your primary problem.
Why are you even on the phone with known liars cheats swindlers and scallywags?
Replies to your message were much less than expected- because appraisers, AMCs and Lenders stopped monitoring customary and reasonable fees like they should. Only 18 responses came back, which does not even closely sample the number of AMCs in business. Lenders should reinstate the customary and reasonable fee audits and get back to in office AMC audits and this issue would have the monitoring needed. The point is, if the lenders cared to fix this they would. The issues have expanded with more broker shops and less lender oversight of AMCs.
You state AMC/Lenders “stopped monitoring customary and reasonable fees”. Heck AmC/Lender never seriously monitored C/R fee. The monitoring was a “sham” or a decoy to get the AMC business model to be acceptiable.
Prior to 2018 I can attest that these audits were monitored by larger lenders and they held AMCs to a tighter margin. If AMCs didn’t follow it, they lost allocation. After 2018, the rapid expansion of broker business, then Covid, and now short handed because of layoffs, there is probably no oversight with exception of the top 3-5 key lenders (annually). If you are signing appraisals that are going through a broker business, they only care about that transaction. The broker shops who are in bed with their AMC, that’s an article that would draw my attention. Typically the broker business mortgages companies fail AIR guidelines, so customary and reasonable fee audits won’t be on the radar. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have allowed it, so it’s going to be hard to reign that back in.
Tessa, yup, not surprised by what you discovered. That’s 1 big reason, why I gave up on mortgage appraisal work some 18+ years ago. There is appraisal life after mortgage work, but its different. Bottom line, is that the lending industry interest groups(amcs, lenders, mortgage brokers, etc) have hijack the “appraisal process” from the appraisal professional groups. They dictate the fees, turn times, comp selections, appraisal methods, some of these AMCs even offer mini appraisal courses on how to do a better appraisal reports with fewer loan conditions. Unlike other appraisal work, the appraisal arena for mortgage work is mostly in the control of lender interest groups. You do as the say or the move on to others.
Yeah well, complicated issues and thank you for the information. You’d think one of those supposed genius analysts and accounts managers would explore the possibility they could skip all that effort by simply requiring for the amc to bill separately for their service. The abuse of the amc industry still has the potential to be one of the largest class actions in history. The shifting to ‘modernization’ is merely a bureaucratic activity to offload liability before this entire house of cards gives way and accountability comes home. Like everything covid; smoke and mirrors to place a stopgap on otherwise extremely destructive market forces already long since gained speed, which had no long term financial solution. The great reset is not for us or the betterment of the earth or society, it’s jubilee for the entitled classes.
Tessa
Brilliant statement! Thanks.
I really believe that the chickens will come home to roost! I expect massive layoffs in the non-bank mortgage systems.
Appraiser’s “customary and reasonable fees” are a JOKE. The AMC’s decide what is customary and “reasonable”. They control the work and who gets the assignment based on the lowest and fastest fee quoted by 10-50 appraisers depending on the complexity of the subject being appraised. I’m in an area with mountains, rivers, lakes, marine waterfront, many peninsulas, islands (without bridges), air fields, mom & pop farms. They sit in an office and have ZERO geographical competency. As the AMC’s rob you of not only your time and resources (you’re paying for the research platform) then they pit on appraiser against another an like “ENRON” laughing while “WE” struggle. You can’t even disclose what you’re actually being paid or you’ll be black listed and unable to prove the black listing because YOU don’t have access to their database. So we squabble for crumbs and work for “slightly above minimum wage”. While the AMC takes 30-60% of your fee. THEN still charges the bank for their service. After you’ve been raped: Here comes the delivery fees, service fees for direct deposit or a service fee if you don’t have direct deposit. Not even organized crime syndicates take such a “vig”, former New York City guy.
jaydee, for appraiser czar!! well stated.
Let me understand correctly. Do all states have AMC regulations?
Virginia does and so do many others.
We need to let them have a dose of their own medicine. File a complaint. R&C fee complaint will not get very far. But how about violating appraiser independence.
These fartheads have nothing better to do than interfere in your life. Harassment
If it gains traction then demand that the Board subpoena records of who gets awarded the assignment. Get them to have to open up.
There will be something interesting soon!
Lol….that’s certainly a idea. But, the amc/lenders and their interest groups have ALL the cards. They have had the all the cards for decades. You never say never, but your idea is highly unlikely to be successful.
all appraisers need to have a base fee – just look at the VA -they have a base fee & base turn-times – this should be a base of your basic fee – in CT it is $600 & a 10 BUSINESS DAY (not hours, on the weekends or 24/7) i add $300 for everything that is not a basic home – i add $300 for all of these – over 3000sf, then again for over 4000sf and so on – homes built in the 1900’s or 1800’s, lakefront, waterfront, log, large lots add for every time its over 5ac then again for 10ac & so on – then add on all the extra charges (the AMCs 3rd party fees) as we should not have to pay for there 3rd partys – tech fees – how about are tech fees (mls is over $2k a year – software – e&o – car upkeep & more) delivery fees – yea no – you choose to use these other 3rd party – then you pay for them – how about when they say you need to pay for your own background checks – yea no – you require one then you go get one on me – i have nothing to hide –
i would tell everyone to reach out to your state rep and start having the AMC laws (that they made – without any input from us) make it so every appraisal has an invoice from the appraiser with full fee disclosure – as the amc fee is a 3rd party fee the lender chooses to use & they should be paying it – what other business does not have invoices? or for the middleman to say you can not have an invoice – so they can hide the outrageous fees they get/charge – the Dodd Frank was to improve accountability and promote transparency to the public. so let’s have common-sense laws that promote transparency in the appraisal payment process and do not mislead consumers as to who is getting paid for what.
if the AMC think they rate $300 then ok (not sure why, should be less than $50) – but that is an added 3rd party fee – NOT coming out of the APPRAISERS fee – also i had to (back in 2013) have my rep update the “payment times” from the 60 days after the report is sent in to be paid (per the AMC law – again that we had no say to) was trying to get it to what everyone else gets paid (like the amcs pay their own people) – weekly or bi-weekly – but they moved it to 45 days – per the amc laws – so this year i have sent in an email to my rep – 2 weeks ago – still waiting to hear back.
so take the time – get your state rep involved with simple changes – mandatory invoices on all reports from the appraiser with full fee disclosure – and stick to a basic VA fee and turn-times – as these BS amcs shopping for cheapest & quickest – then come back to you a week or so later then only gives you a day or so to do – yea NO – they all can pound sand – but you have to want change to get some change – take the time – talk is cheap – if you guys can sit hear and read all these – then you have time – just saying – thanks & good luck
Excellent. When I was trying to work with amc’s the quotes were; X total days ‘from the day of assignment’. I was constantly lamblasting them, why the repeat email quote requests, the terms are always this minimal amount, never less, never shorter time frames, additional quote requests do not change this. It was around that point I understood shopping methods better that this was on automated. Observing the panic and blatant deception when I asked simple questions like what was the borrower charged before I would submit a quote, and how many other appraisers was this request sent to, alongside the constant refusal by the amc to share such simple data, told me everything I need to know about the amc companies lack of ethic. Subbing one out for the other never brought relief, they’re all the same. In every report a minimum statement is; The appraiser has billed $x amount for this limited scope service. With other caveats in standard language, the engagement only applies to this report and any additional service including (yada yada) may be subject to full billing rates, should the appraiser choose to accept additional service requests. Brian what state are you in? Thanks.
Let’s get real. The bottom line is that AMC/lenders definition (and goal) for quality appraisals and competency is fast and the lowest $ fee. There is not other way to look at it. The AMC/lenders know they can get away with it, since the appraisers doing the appraisal work will never collectively stand UP with any strength or support. So the real question is when, if ever, will the appraiser regain control of the appraisal function.
Let me answer that Raymond. Never. It’s too late now. Could have been done several years ago, but the little power we had is gone.
Jim, can’t really disagree with your prediction.
Save the defeatist attitude. Their is always China if you feel causes of liberty and fair representation are hopeless, or worse, not even worth pursuing.
40+ years and still pending.
What if appraiser’s unionized. Set a national fee baseline, healthcare, lobby representation beyond the single lobbyist that we have now that can’t actually do anything to help our situation. IF we unionize we not get any work, but in the long run we still may not get any work….
At present pace, it will be a hurry up and wait until the automation fails and there is another housing crash, but no appraiser’s to blame. Maybe they ask us back, maybe the just stick with the automation. Either case the power that be are looking for any excuse to get rid of appraiser to the ruse of speed, ending supposed rampant racial bias, etc.
Just ask Teamsters Union to represent appraisers. Yeah , they will know what to do. Sort of like Dodd Franck on steroids.
Lets see now, Union Dues or addition fees taken from each report, plus all the other office overhead costs.
Then appraisers could strike if appraisers were not happy with union wages and government cheese. Appraisers could control the market, no the world, rather than be laughed at on late night tv shows.
Appraisers will all be on easy street.
Then you outstanding solution to idiot appraiser’s not knowing their worth and keep taking lower fees. I’m appalled that anyone here is taking less then $700 per standard assignment, even in tight market. There is not reason for it. Just say no, but to sit there be snarky like that…long walk short pier and enjoy your lower wages….
I do nothing but the rush. Most of my work is attorney divorce with on multi million dollar properties in Silicon Valley.
My fees are on steroids and able to produce high quality reports suitable for court purposes with mls, CMA, stats and scatter graphs.
Amcs and lenders ask me what my non rush fees are and I just tell them if this is not a rush, then call someone else.
Being real estate broker owner / appraiser allows me to find estate work and then represent the estate should they need assistance in marketing a property.
Yes I saw your banter before. I’m still not impress with you arrogance. Great you work for attorney’s. That tells me to bend your opinions to meet the needs of the client – hope that actually is market value. Oh, but your Flash the great, I forgot.
Appraisal work in Expert Witness Testimony is the highest level of appraisal work.
As an appraiser, it is all about staying neutral when on the witness stand. No one tells me what value they need or want or else I become a clerk.
I am neutral and do not know either party in divorce work nor is there bias.
The beauty of mls, CMA exported into statistical charts and scatter graphs allow an appraiser to explain to an attorney on the witness stand to defend your work.
Most cases are settled without going to court at the last minute and I still get paid.
In working a business plan of nothing but the rush, requires the appraiser to not take assignments that are low fees or else be backed up and not have time to complete rush work on time.
It’s that simple.
Yes. I’m fully aware and fully experienced in completing work for Estate, attorney uses for taxes, divorce and family disputes. I’m not talking about any of that. I was talking about your snarky attitude from my unionization suggestion. You’re not the only one that catches fat fees from lawyers and the like.
As a former card carrying member of Teamsters Local 481, I have been to several late night Teamsters Union Meetings as to whether to accept a new union contract work agreement or to strike for higher wages or more benefits.
Have also been a Teamsters Union Picket Captain, so after 3 years of working under a union contract, I could clearly see the Appraiser Union Worker in the present moment. When we did go on strike and since I was not fearful of my job, I gladly offered my services to organize Teamster Members where to walk around with on strike signs.
When the suggestion to unionize appraisers is being discussed, the need to look forward as to the additional possible scenarios or union contracts and the right of an appraiser to strike are all topics of discussion.
Yet I will over look the earlier claim of siding with lawyers as to the appraiser expert witness being told what value the report should be.
I completely understand that unions have tremendous down sides as they do up, however with outright lack or really any support from the main players in the market, we will all be automated and replaced at all levels very soon with Artificial Intelligence. This includes appraisals for estate and litigation of all types. What we do is not proprietary, nor difficult when applying the scientific methodology of the appraisal practices to any given subject matter regardless of value. I personally don’t know of any other means to get all appraisers on the same page and manage the constant onslaught from the media and surrounding players. AI and the TAF appear to cater to money, which leaves us holding the bag. The automation would also replace the likes or loan officers and realtors. I can only assume AMCs as well, unless they are completing AVMs as a shift in business. It’s not if, but when and could there have been something we could have done collectively stop it. Pain is the only motivation for change.
I know someone that was offered a job at the Whitehorse to represent the appraiser and what is going on in the industry with regards to minorities and housing, coupled with racial bias. They turned down the job because they would have to move to DC. No other Appriaser took the job and we all can read the headlines after the administration change. If no one steps up because it is inconvenient then, well it is what it is.
Spencer, there is always the option for internal reform. Such as ending the good old boys club of the AI and allowing a vote for TAF leadership across the full spectrum of licensed appraisers. The TAF has long since ceased to represent the majority of the licensed valuation services industry. If a union was formed, it would be basically that union in opposition to TAF. Battle of the non profits merely results in more non profit activity. Non profits over the past few decades have morphed away from altruistic goal organizations into mere loopholes to bypass legislative authority and funnel taxpayer monies to special interest pet projects. At this point, non profits often have non profits of their own, it’s a shell game.
Who wants to become a NON-PROFIT?
I had a client who wanted me to contribute my fee.
In Dianna words BULSHIT.
I went directly to the IRS and inquired How I could protect my client relationship, my fee and reputation. IRS said they don’t generally pay fees.
What do you suppose would happen if amc workers unionized, to attain a fair piece of the pie from their bosses exploitative practices? That previous amc whom went stock public and ended up as a penny comes to mind. Do you think their bosses mandates to exploit appraisers no matter what, may come up as a negotiation point? Amc’s have incredible staffing turnover because it takes a very special person to boldly lie to another while simultaneously ripping them off with predatory engagement practices, yet not be part of the commission based structure.
Well the AMCs unionizing is mute because there are no individual licensing for each employee for leveraging that takes two years to get. It appears that the suggestion of unionizing as a possibility obviously would never happen – hurting kitten theory to start, but a real conversation is starting. The replacement of TAF representatives sounds like a great start. It would be nice if there was an actual governing body would stop black listing and low balling tactics that have already been discussed. The CFPB does care unless they have a big money pot case, nor the FDIC, state boards, etc. just seems like it is all for not and rather depressing.
Excellent. Two points; Tech companies involved with distribution have created interesting new methods to exclude appraisers and/or assist those whom seek to exclude certain appraisers from the workforce. A substantial portion of the distribution software employees including software function development staff actually think that’s the intended employment duty of their employer, to assist amc’s in getting better service terms from appraisers without reflection on possible consequences to the appraisers or any recognition of law beyond what the internal policies dictate. We need more industry whistle blowers. The amc’s drive the clients whom drive volume orders, hence, they’re the new boss. The dream which was Mercury systems is now fully expired. So is that of Scope and AP. In arguments about bidding spam I have learned that amc’s have the ability to place appraisers on do not send to lists or inactive lists, unbeknownst to the appraiser, with no software company policy which even addresses this, yet the software functionality is now built into these systems. Have you ever tried to argue with the order distribution companies about their methods, to advocate for information on how many other appraisers the order was sent to, transparent information on borrowers fees, tools for the appraiser to select which clients they are willing to hear from, etc, etc, fee setting options per client, multiple fee tiers?
Second, I retain my firm belief that everyone involved in the distribution and assignment of appraisal requests on the identified client or agent of the client side should be required to hold an appraisers license themselves on an individual basis, for mortgage lending at least. Software companies whom distribute appraisal orders should be treated like amc’s and regulated at this point, being literal agents of the amc industry if not actual purveyors of amc services themselves through ancillary company holdings. Amc company licensing was irrelevant, no individual is ever held accountable, the nature of an amc corporation member sitting on a board of 1099 vendors is absurd and an abuse of seperation of powers, should have never happened. Improper co mingled billing, alongside improper co mingled regulatory structures. When the advocate is the antagonist. Separation from loan production has resulted in a nullification of many Appraisal Independence principals. Lose one amc, lose several dozen clients. Previously the appraiser and the brokers individual ethic mattered, as during direct communication and transparent documentation of that communication, there was also a two way street of accountability. As the system currently stands, one less check to power for the brokers, one more oversight step for appraisers, that we’re forced to pay for on behalf of the broker, often operating in the blind while the other side maintains the full view of all transaction details. Nothing stops appraisers from being their own advocates. Separation from loan production was a mistake which only opened the doors for a new more nefarious type of predatory behavior regarding engaging appraisers. Don’t get depressed, get even. Their inadequate understanding of actual ethic is the weakness, and your shield.
I’m from the government, I’m here toooo help.
Tooo much government; if the especially the governments are controlled by all of them public people.
Trading a union lie for another professional Liar is not progress.
You are the only one who can control a lie, if you will?
So, based on everything every one has said, there is no real solutions and this industry is in fact ready for the back burner.
Except for that annoying thing of people actually needing accurate valuations… Don’t confuse pessimism with the actual end.
The actual end is pushing for no appraiser’s, realtor’s or LO’s. Money drive almost all choices (meaning getting more) and consequences be damned. Since no one has any solutions, tell me why then it’s not a dead industry with the advancements of AI and the pure desire to done with appriaser’s.
yup.
Have you ever been invited to your clients (the Attorneys) bankruptcy?
Do you discount for multiple parcels, justify the market time and discount with accounting & appraisal standards?
Do you have working understanding in the collection of fees?
Do you work for an attorney or for his client? who do you collect from?
Frequently lenders financing both small and large developments require a developer to put more equity into their inventory, on analyses you will find discounts and marketing times required.
Your client and the borrower will question your positions.
DID you read the LATEST. The supreme court Of? is hearing a case of legislatures who foreclosed on TAX properties for themselves, resold them and did not return the left-over equity to the original owners?
Remember when pricing yourself DON’T use hourly rates, these hourly rates do not include any thing for the bidding, the retirement, or the administrative duties for your office.
Social Security won’t cut it.
I do nothing but the rush. Most of my work is attorney divorce with on multi million dollar properties in Silicon Valley.
My fees are on steroids and able to produce high quality reports suitable for court purposes with mls, CMA, stats and scatter graphs.
Amcs and lenders ask me what my non rush fees are and I just tell them if this is not a rush, then call someone else.
Being real estate broker owner / appraiser allows me to find estate work and then represent the estate should they need assistance in marketing a property.
Interesting Tom. If you know that you are going to represent the estate, is that a conflict of interest if you are doing the appraisal. This is merely a question, please don’t interpret it as any form of an accusation. I’m just interested.
Jim
Hi James
Good question. Here is the answer.
It’s called Full Disclosure .
Estate purpose appraisal, death of decedent, GP General Purpose Form is used since the use of the report is not for lending purposes. It’s for the step up of taxes.
Now , say the estate executor likes the quality report written by the appraiser and if the appraiser also holds either a salesman’s real estate license or a broker license it can become profitable.
So the executor of the estate makes a decision to be represented Agent or Broker who also holds an appraiser license.
Still totally ethical, but the agent needs to simply put in a disclosure in escrow informing both the buyer and seller that the appraiser had earlier appraised the property for estate purposes.
There is no conflict of interest if it is disclosed in escrow.
Re-Lo appraisers frequently do re do’s afterward for a lender. However, Loan appraisal requires a current Value and the ReLo a future estimate and market suggestions.
The appraiser is invited in for both jobs and there be some awkwardness if the differences are fully explained.
I’m all for an appraiser’s union. I was a union member in he past. I was an appraiser for a government agency & was represented by a large union. It was the best time in my life. I made a good living & had good benefits. I don’t get all these folks with negative attitudes towards unions. You have to wonder if they were ever union members or had any family members who were union members. I think many just spout some nonsense they heard somewhere, but don’t really know what they are talking about.
N.C Appraiser, unions is a good idea and a possible solution. However, here is where you are missing it. Gathering appraisers together(statewide or nationwide) is impossible. Thus, I unionization will never work or highly unlikely. That’s the sad reality for decades. The lenders and lender interest group know that reality and why the lord it over the mortgage lending appraisers.
Not missing it at all. About 14-15 years ago I tried to organize a union in Northern California. I emailed several hundred appraisers & got 1 response. ONE out of hundreds. I know from bitter experience how hard it is. I still know, also from experience, that it is a good idea, but I don’t expect much of a positive response anytime soon. As most appraisers have no experience as union members, they just have no idea how much better it can be.
Question, how many lenders out there have a unionized workforce? Does such a thing even exist? Unions are like a two sided coin, can be beneficial but then also can be really difficult to deal with. My wife has medical union benefits, always with some negotiated benefit which is really great, like I’d have never made it this far without her full family medical coverage free of additional charge. You just don’t find benefits like that very often anymore. Then they turn around and browbeat us for being conservatives and advocate against our best interests in the political spectrum. They even tried underhanded actions to work her out during the trump years because of a bumper sticker, thankfully long term connections and a simple inter company move saved the day. But you know when it comes to the unions interface with large corporations, especially under a single corporation unionization setting which may encompass most employees, the union guys just play whatever fiddle the corporate guys demand. You may benefit from at large negotiated group benefits of a union but actual individual representation is for the most part, simply absent.
If we had more competition among businesses and less special benefits provided by a for sale governance body which leads to industry monopolization, there would be less need for unions in the first place. My brother is an hvac union member in CA and gets amazing benefits. He explains it to me as being some state requirement, if you want a commercial hvac servicer, you have no other choice but to go through the union. How are those types of unions formed because that’s probably the only way such a notion could be explored for licensed appraisers, at a minimum, required membership via some state licensing deal incorporated alongside a union? I can’t even begin to speculate if I’d like that or not, but just thought I’d mention such a concept. TAF is supposed to function as our union and look how easily they were co opted by greed and special interests of big lenders. Bout to post the bat shit crazy letter link just for fun. One could only imagine the in fighting which would instantly evolve if we all actually had a say in steering this industry at large. We at a minimum, need to reform TAF so all licensed appraisers can vote in or out the entire spectrum of leadership and support positions, get those guys to behave and actually represent the majority for once. That’s probably a more realistic goal than unionization, reforming TAF so all licensed appraisers get a say who is in charge, no more inside panel and friend of a friend of a mutual lobbyist interest appointments. It’s a big club, and you and I are not in it. You and I are not in the big club.
If Phil is alive? I would pay dues to him
Why do you Call them (Mortgage Lending Appraisers) Do some study some other kind of stuff? Arn’t we all Appraisers.
Some study the gse handbooks, others the yellowbook, others irs code, others jurisdictional statute regs, cdot, estate rules, marketing and tech, preservation, insurability. With roughly half of all appraisers not accepting or requesting mortgage lending work, it’s fair. Jump over if you like, claim the title if you want. I prefer to be limited in this regard, hence the specific definition, it fits.
Ain’t it kind of demeaning saying “Yellowbook Appraiser”?
Get all those government requests and special vendor numbers and such. Yellowbook appraiser as I understand it, is next level more prestige more responsibility, tapping into the federal governments proprietary vendor systems as your clients. I gave it a read when looking at BLM work, it’s interesting but a lot of commitment. One can apply with land management to attain a CG too.
https://www.justice.gov/file/408306/download
They won’t allow you in the forest with a lawn mower.
even if you are cruiser. Included in the yellow book is an estimate of board feet, even if the property is paved.
My first day as a lawn mowing boss, having transitioned out of appraisal service.
I went to a property today which literally had fecal matter on every wall, every floor area, even the stove. Possibly the most disgusting property I’ve ever seen. Then a super poorly behaved pit bull next door got half way through the fence and I hid in the detached garage without electricity and peeked out at him through this hole. The equity was very palatable in that home. Thankfully I keep a mobile hand washing station deal in a bucket in the truck. And that’s why I’ll probably pass on the full spectrum of field service engagements. Meet your new home inspector!
In the early 1950s for a fifth of Jim Beam I bought a job as a truck driver and joined the teamsters. I was enthusiastic and attended a meeting, there was an important meeting that evening and we had visitors, Big guys from the big city rallying us up.
most everyone had an influenced opinion that evening!
I now hold an honorary retirement from the teamsters.
a AMC is a 3rd party for the lender/client – it should have a separate fee for that & paid by the lender/client who chooses to use them – again – they are not required to use them – as they choose to – reach out to your state representatives – make an effort to have the “amc laws” changed – make it mandatory to have invoices on all your appraisals! Not having the 3rd party dictate what you can have in your report – “report must not have a invoices” and why is that – oh so the middleman can hide the outrageous fees they get/charge – the Dodd Frank was to improve accountability and promote transparency to the public. so let’s have common-sense laws that promote transparency in the appraisal payment process and do not mislead consumers as to who is getting paid for what.
since they do not let you turn in a report with a invoice – i always have this statement – 1st thing on my addendum
This appraisal was completed for XXX / FHA on behalf of the 3rd party AMC – XXX (Ct AMC#XXX & their fee was NOT disclosed) by an independent residential appraisal contractor – Brians Appraisal Service for the fee of $600. As of the turn-in of this report, no fees have been paid – payment due with-in 14 days.
Big pharmasuetical companies can basically ruin the television watching experience and mental health of three hundred million americans with their DTC direct to consumer advertisement business models which are inevitably followed with class action lawsuit commercials literally the very next minute. But if an appraiser wants a direct to consumer engagement, or a borrower wants to use the same appraiser they relied on previously, oh shit, stop the show, shut that down immediately! (Lender on phone, panicking.) Heavens forbid the appraisal service fee is controlled by the person completing the actual appraisal. That would be as bad as a lawyer writing their own invoices or a plumber demanding a hand written check for services performed! We’re just a little more sophisticated than that in real estate, dontchaknow. It’s because we have so many smart people involved in valuation service management.
Airplane mechanics have to INCLUDE the yellow tags for parts replaced when repairing or anualing a client’s airplane by Government regulation and, or a fine.
Don’t want any airplane falling out of the sky.
Good on you, why not charge $800?
“AMC” is not in my vocabulary and it hasn’t been for 20 years.
FNMA & HUD need a lender list with approved appraisers and then the assignments get rotated randomly, similar to the VA rotation. Fees are the same for each assignment based on area. No AMC’s or fees taken out…appraiser gets full amount. VA runs a great system with set fees, no middle management and is the only work I complete now, other than a few select private parties for estates, attorneys, etc. (Appraising for 40+ years)
Gary…Gary…Gary… That makes way too much sense and would work wonderfully. Not a chance they would adopt your sensible solution. 🙂
Missing the IVPI proposal yet? I mean, people already put a system for this together 15 years ago. We could have skipped the entire amc thing, had a hundred thousand more appraisers, more success, less interference.
https://www.workingre.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/IVPI-Proposalfinal.pdf
Read. Save. Distribute.
V.A. loans are different. They are recourse loans, and the veteran borrower will pay the loan off or lose his Cadillac and bank account.
I just gave up bidding on AMC bid requests that they send out to hundreds of appraisers. Waste of my time.
Will, I gave up, doing AMC work, about 20 years ago.
Good on you, why not charge $800?
Want low fees? Keep bidding for the AMC work. Again, I know this will NOT receive any traction; EVERYONE quit working for 4-6 weeks. NO ONE take bullship low fee(s). We are the most VITAL part of any transaction. An auto-mechanic gets $185 an hour, Okay the shop does. The actual mechanic? $35per hour. Are YOU the actual mechanic? STOP ACCEPTING MINIMUM WAGE FEES!!! This isn’t 1996 (when I started), Inflation has happened in every aspect of YOUR very life has taken place and the AMCS want to pay you 295-350 per. Forken Krap!!! Stop being a PUTZ. You’re, we’re professionals CHARGE LIKE ONE. But, like I said. This will not receive any traction.
Jayde for Appraiser Czar!
I just got this email from an AMC I used to do work with:
Appraiser agrees to “xxxxxxxx’s” fee sheet and may not request deviations from such fees unless he or she is able to provide documentation of extenuating circumstances that justify such deviation. No fee modifications may occur without the written approval of “xxxxxxx”.
So the AMC’s get to tell us how much the appraisal is worth, SOW be damned.
I have more than one AMC telling me the same general thing – they set the fees. I have done only initial research on this topic, and have not yet acted on it. The advice online is to file a complaint – with your state’s appraisal board, the Office of Comptroller of the Currency, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and the FDIC. No, I don’t yet have contact information for these agencies, but I’m sure they are available online. I hope everyone starts filing complaints.
I have more than one AMC telling me the same general thing – they set the fees. I have done only initial research on this topic, and have not yet acted on it. The advice online is to file a complaint – with your state’s appraisal board, the Office of Comptroller of the Currency, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and the FDIC. No, I don’t yet have contact information for these agencies, but I’m sure they are available online. I hope everyone starts filing complaints.
Interesting that the AMCs set their (low) appraisal fee based on a some business profit goal and the typical appraiser is suppose to set their appraisal fee based on the complexity of the appraisal assignment. Two opposing standards and opinions. AMC’s have taken over the entire appraisal process. So AMC’s appraisers comply or leave. It appears that AMC appraisal work is similar to professional slavery(you do as you are told or they easily get someone else)
You will work for the peanuts we tell you. This is what the AMC’s are telling you. “PACK SAND” you do the appraisal.
I don’t know what your business model is. The AMC’s love “set fees”. If I cross the street to do an appraisal it’s $XXX for the fee. But if I have to drive to the other end of the county (they’re HUGE here in Washington State) they will pay you the same fee. If you deviate; they find someone else. Setting fees is an antiquated model. Every home is different. Every home has it’s own complexities, not to mention REAL COMPLEX homes. But you have a set fee………………
Any comments?
Just a note. Most of the AMCs are owned/co-owned by appraisers.