VA Unofficially Says NOPE to ANSI

Dave Towne
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VA Unofficially Says NOPE to ANSI Measuring Protocol. 

The other agencies, Freddie Mac, HUD/FHA, USDA, ONAP, VA have NOT (yet) adopted this ANSI measuring protocol.

Appraisers, an appraiser I know sent an email to the VA asking if VA was going to require appraisers to adhere to the ANSI Z765-2021 Measuring Standard as of April 1, 2022.

The appraiser received an ‘unofficial’ response back from a person within the VA connected to processing appraisals, which said:

“The short answer is, no.”

I say this is ‘unofficial’ because to-date, I have seen nothing “official” from VA about this topic. Only officials from within VA know whether or not they will issue any directives about this.

So it would appear to me that appraisers completing reports for VA should continue using whatever measuring protocol that is currently used per the VA appraisal guidebook.

Last week, I was having lunch with a peer. The appraiser asked “If I do the inspection on March 28 and that is the Effective Date, but sign and turn in the report on April 5, do I have to measure to the ANSI Standard?”

I said ‘hmmm’… “I’ll have to check the exact wording in the FAQ from Fannie Mae.” Which I have done.

It says (my bold and underlines):

Appraisers will be REQUIRED to use the Square Footage Method for Calculating: ANSI Z765-2021 Measuring Standard for measuring, calculating, and reporting gross living area (GLA) and non-GLA areas of subject properties for appraisals requiring interior and exterior inspections with EFFECTIVE DATES of April 1, 2022 or later on loans sold to Fannie Mae.”

For appraisals, Effective Date is the actual date of value, not the report signature date.

Therefore, for the above example, the measuring would not have to be done per ANSI.

Now there is something else you need to know: NOWHERE in ANSI is the term “GLA” used. That term is only used on the GSE designed mortgage lending, and General Purpose non-lending forms.

ANSI uses the terms ‘Finished Area’ or ‘Finished Square Footage, and ‘Unfinished Area.’

During the Seattle ANSI Roadshow class, the Fannie Mae representative was questioned about this. For the purposes of the form, the ANSI ‘Finished Area Above Grade’ square footage figure goes into the above grade GLA field on the form, and any ANSI BELOW GRADE square footage goes into the Basement & Finished Rooms Below Grade field.

The above CURRENTLY only applies to reports for loans eventually submitted for purchase to Fannie Mae, with report Effective Dates of April 1, 2022 or later.

One more tidbit: the above ONLY APPLIES TO APPRAISERS. When the moonlighting pizza delivery drivers or laid off PhD professors are the ones providing Property Data Reports and Floor Plans for Desktop or Hybrid reports, those Floor Plans don’t have to be measured to ANSI Z765-2021. Same applies to the Floor Plans produced by licensed architects, who are not bound by ANSI either. Architect Floor Plans, as builder blueprints, are often used by County/Parish Assessors to determine home sizes for taxation purposes.

The other agencies, Freddie Mac, HUD/FHA, USDA, ONAP, VA have NOT (yet) adopted this ANSI measuring protocol.

Image credit flickr - Rebecca Siegel
Dave Towne

Dave Towne

AGA, MNAA, Accredited Green Appraiser - Licensed in WA State since 2003. Dave Towne on e-AppraisersDirectory.com

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15 Responses

  1. Avatar Carl says:

    That’s great news! Hopeful for an official statement.

    4
  2. Avatar Brent A Johnson, SRA, AI-RRS says:

    It appears at this point that all investors except Fannie want improvements measured to local market based standards rather than ANSI based standards alone – that makes sense when valuing residential improvements within their respective competitive market segments.

    6
  3. Baggins Baggins says:

    GXX001. That’s just the way it is. If I’ve read that correctly, according to the FAQ, if one has to disqualify legitimate agla area and report that in basement, we’re supposed to still report those room counts in the agla line, but adjust all the size as if it’s similar to a basement. Yet, our matching model comps will be reported and adjusted with it’s true market accepted size statements. Unless FNMA can push something through on the federal level and force assessors nationally to retroactively change all reported sizes to ansi standards, this will never work. Coupled with the updated forms, incompetence abounds at FNMA. Imagine a large 2 story on slope, with a 800 sq ft qualifiable agla area with 8 rooms, and a 1600 sq ft basement with 3 rooms. But only if it’s a conventional loan. If this same home is being examined for HUD, VA, IRS, legal, forensic, courts, avm, etc, then it’s back to a 1,600 agla w/ 800 sf basement, 8 rooms up, 3 down.

    4
  4. Avatar Koma says:

    Can’t wait to see this mess play out. I’ve read hundreds of post where as the appraisers say they will just use the GXX001 code to bypass the ANSI requirement. The updated guidance states that this is not acceptable. Wonder what that will do to the time it takes for their loans to close. …hahahaha

    3
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      Approximately 40,000 appraisers completing gse work, x $25 per flimsy 16 page ansi ebook, sometimes recurring. $1,000,000. Question, if this is supposed to be the new standard, why do we have to pay for the book? Mortgage giant FNMA can’t negotiate a free copy? Somebody re print the pdf and post it please. We don’t have money to throw away on flimsy digital ebooks.

      5
  5. VA is usually the cooler head out of all the agencies, and I have worked for them all. So, I hope VA does not adopt the new ANSI standard. Simply because it makes no sense.

    4
  6. Avatar koma says:

    Well the hammer just dropped, One of the few AMC’s I do business with just sent out an email stating they are REQUIRING that all reports completed for them moving forward must be completed to ANSI Standards. No matter who the report is for it must be completed to that standard. I do not and will not use that standard.

    Just got off the phone with them and said after 12 years GOODBYE!

    Hope there is more that will stand up to this BS.

    1
    • Baggins Baggins says:

      My buddy independent appraiser is making a killing in private work and attorney work, like $1k to $1.5k avg just to start. This is the front side as they ‘test the market’ with their own brand of ‘mandates’. Lots of that going around lately. They can talk tough until the sun sets, they are not in charge of the independent market and all the decisions individuals make. The best part is they’ll be back. They need you, but you do not need them. Same thing for FNMA. These geniuses think they can use appraisers as a tool to press the entire housing market to implement sweeping changes nationwide. Oh boy, if only appraisers had that kind of influence, we’d have started by sweeping all the amc’s away a long time ago and driven our own fees up substantially. We can’t even get the monkey off our backs or the vultures out of our pockets. How the heck do they think we’re going to influence county assessment offices? The ending to this is predictable but they’ll refuse to relent until someone else can be made a scape goat for their poor decisions and illogical policy implementations. My crystal ball is glowing; There will be a required CE class for ANSI, because the appraisers are just not getting it. Soon we’ll have uspap, racial equality, and ANSI occupying half of our bi annual CE requirements.

      2
    • Avatar Diana n says:

      I got the same email and I agree with you 100 percent, this is more BS to put appraisers in out of business. I also got an order for a 1004 that they wanted to pay me $250 for, lots of luck. What an insult.

      1
      • Avatar koma says:

        Good for you!

        I had a discussion with that AMC and they stated to just put the left out square footage, if any, from the ANSI measurement on a seperate line in the grid and make the adjustment there. RIDICULOUS!

        1
        • Baggins Baggins says:

          Report the size as materially different in a fictitious manner. While not letting this falsified reporting affect the final market value conclusions or credibility of the assignment.

          Does the updated FNMA form even have free adjustment lines? The samples I viewed were too small for me to figure that out.

          You could always fill the grid normally and do the sketch normally, then take an image grab of that and include it in your report as an image or adobe attachment. Then butcher your net/gross and add a few dozen extra warning errors, fail to bracket, the works. That way reviewers and users can clearly understand why you’ve reported in a manner contrary to market standards and contrary to every other real world indicator except the lunacy imposed with ANSI standards. That’s a good way to handle this if you want to keep moving and will illustrate the hippocracy of this nonsense.

          Voice your objections to Fannie directly using this link. While you still can…
          https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/appraiser-contact-us-form

          0
          • Avatar koma says:

            Thanks for the link, but what’s the use they don’t listen to us appraisers anyway. When they bring us in it’s just for show. Hey they can push this for the next 3-5 when most of us will probably be retiring then their off with the use of automated systems 100%.

            I’ll be moving back home to the islands smoking my Pakalolo watching this circus on TV. Nah probably not…hahaha

            0
            • Baggins Baggins says:

              Someone got back to me with nice words, said the letter would be forwarded to the work group handling ansi issues. I’m sad, what a waste of 20 years.

              0

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VA Unofficially Says NOPE to ANSI

by Dave Towne time to read: 2 min
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