I like that idea.

If they balk we can file complaints claiming outside influence as to what is in our report.

Long ago and locally I had reliable clients. I charged $1350.00 for OVER ten appraisals a month, billed $135.00 apiece, collectible at the end of the month.

When things slowed to 8 per month I billed at $150.00 each. The $1200 due became the indicator that my previously (reliable) clients had became difficult. My collectibles became a problem which took major time away from keeping up with business. Giving a 10% discount may have been semi ethical but so were the local hard money lenders.

The judicial system for collecting business debts is slow and tedious.

When you let a legitimate debt go you encourage everyone to ignore you, EVAN your professional Appraisal experience becomes doubtful. Business experience is very important and collecting money is THE MOST IMPORTANT business duty.

Soon if not already, the appraisers fee will be the last hard cost. Everything else is financed or somehow rolled in.

Lien capability varies state by state. I think our fees should be able to be financed at this point, there is unreasonable permanent downward fee pressure on mortgage lending appraisers.

Because lenders generally prohibit appraisal shopping, consumers are powerless to save a dollar. Otherwise they would care. And that care may be better balanced, some seeking quality, others seeking discount.

Brilliant! Thanks Marion

James, no offense but you would never hear such a complaint.

At least once a month borrowers ask me where did the other $$$$ go?

Call your LO who’s looking out for you.

Same here !!! I never get any, but I don’t and won’t work for leeches anyway !

I like that as a personal MINIMUM fee guideline. We should be seeking more, but that’s certainly an acceptable non-complex fee in many areas (including mine). I tried to regularly get $650 on non-complex and simply cant do it (though I relatively routinely get $1,500-$3,500 for complex). $550 non-complex seems to be the sweet spot in my market area…but I always look for opportunities to press it.

VA now pays $525 in PA !!!

An important follow up note IMJSAYN-san, is that disclosure guidelines in SOW are policy, not law. Nobody ever took away my first amendment right and back when I was performing amc work, I always disclosed my fee up front. Order stapled on a manila folder, address, name, and fee highlighted. It’s one of the appraisers standard introduction pieces in many scenarios, validation that you are the person the lender or lenders agent sent to their private property and personal space.

It is shocking that a full two decades later, appraisers are still subservient to ancillary appraisal industry persons whom continue to break actual laws.

Watch how fast consumers understand and care about appraisal fees when, the appraiser does not get paid and files a mechanic’s lien against the property.

But, our closing docs say the appraiser was paid $X and we have title insurance.

Yup, you’ll quick find out how much they know and care.

James, do these amcs disclose their fee to appraisers? If not, why not? What are they hiding? The fact that they may be making more than the appraiser?

Also, please explain why they don’t want appraisers discussing fees with borrowers/homeowners? If the consumers see amcs invoices with breakdown of fees and they are aware of the fact that appraisers are only paid a portion of what was collected for the APPRAISAL FEE, then why aren’t appraisers allowed to discuss fees?

The only reasonable alternative is to never work for amc’s, and avoid lenders whom do insist on working with amc’s. Half of the 80,000 appraisers in this country now outright refuse to work with mortgage lenders, largely due to amc imposition and the subsequent difficulty in finding mortgage lending work outside of the amc pay to play environment. Of the 40,000 left whom do work with mortgage lenders, roughly half of them refuse to work with amc’s.

The amc industry has driven somewhere around 75% of all of the available licensed appraiser workforce away. Now according to these self proclaimed leaders of the valuation industry, whom provide nothing of value themselves…

Disclosure is not the primary objection. The issue is pay to play. Reluctance to disclose honest billing practices absent of governmental mandate is yet another proof positive point the amc management industry is not concerned about ethics.

Who cares about ethics? One could not name a single amc who uses consistent cost plus billing on a long term schedule, because there are none. Amc’s are merely a vessel to re establish junk fees in lending. The fact many amc’s are owned directly or round about by title and/or lending companies, and share their unearned fees back to them, is only further validation of these facts.

It’s good to talk about non transparency in appraisal billing. It’s true that consumers really don’t understand and don’t care about appraisal fees. That is because they don’t save a dime when the appraiser discounts their own services. That is what makes it pay to play and not a mere business decision regarding personal fee schedules.

you people know nothing about our profession and you are like blood suckers taking our professional fees. I hope you know we all hate you and I call you pimps!

Your old nemesis Coester VMS advertised on their old website that they invented the one price national appraisal fee. That particular price-fixing model was followed by virtually all AMCs and lenders ever since.

This is critical. BEFORE any specific property is identified or a specific consumer goes to the lender or mortgage broker, the appraisal fee has been set between the lender and the AMC. To hell with C&R and an open, fair, competitive market. Flat out price-fixing took place before the appraiser was ever consulted. The consumer was quoted a fee for an appraisal that only the bank and the AMC had negotiated…in advance.

Dodd-Frank required that appraisal fees be reasonable. Prior to TRID, we could (in theory) go back to the AMC or lender and say “Guys, you goofed. The subject is a highly complex 5,000sf SFR, on the waterfront, with potential easement issues that have to be analyzed. The $650/$450 split is not reasonable. I require a $1,500 net to me fee as an appraiser for this assignment.” Pre TRID the bank went back to the borrower and explained the above. Often the borrower said, “I thought that sounded low compared to what we paid last time for our property tax appeal.”

Pre TRID they’d remit the balance OR tell the AMC to keep shopping. Post TRID that could no longer happen. No lender was/is willing to go back to the borrower who is already ‘shopping’ them with competitors and admit they failed to allocate a reasonable amount for the appraisal and ask that borrower to sign a ‘new’ good faith estimate.

The AMC by choice or obligation to the lender-client was forced to find an appraiser to fit the fee, rather than one that was competent for the specific assignment. Worse than the above ‘honest’ scenario, the AMCs see finding appraisers to fit their desired profit by ridiculous low fees as their prevailing business model.

THAT is exactly why they hide the fees paid by consumers. MARION’s time point for payment is also significant. No closing document can be reported to be accurate while it shows an appraisal fee ‘paid’ where the appraiser has not in fact already been paid. It is a FALSE and misleading settlement disclosure.

While the new bill was part of my blog the main point was about the missing invoices or the ones they tell you not to send and I appreciate the clarity on the bill. Thanks.