Diana, there are only red and blue, other colors are not permitted. Most appraisers have taken lending courses and some even have agents licenses, which already require legal information and license revocation on violation. how could any appraiser not understand his clients, or her-his position?

More education should be encouraged. We are all multi race appraisers and or agents, we are all multiple races, and we are categorized, but most not as racists.

Somebodies karma ran over their dogma.

The picture that will live in infamy. How many people on the panel that actually think appraisers are a problem. Note, the only people agreeing, are the ones seeking legislative funding for their orgs.

This issue is about to be filed away in the dustbins of irrelevant history, hopefully right next to the new managers of what has now become sensationalist journalism nothing better than tabloids, aka; fake news media. Going once. Going twice…

It’s all good Appraiser of the West. Thank you for participating, it’s nice to see new people. There are like, a hundred or more relevant links in the backlogs on this specific issue. Appraisers had initially chimed in by the dozens with a lot of rich research.

The issue won’t go to bed. This is going to be worse than the ethics class, bound to be a snooze fest with a side of hard to interpret progressive political language. Appraisal CE companies are going to rehash the same basic class to infinity. That could have ran through the ASB as a one time class requirement and did not need to be a state regulation.

https://www.appraisalbuzz.com/pro-appraiser-remarks-from-joan-trice-congressional-hearing-comments/

I guess add another dot on the spaghetti map.

Those new to this issue like readers from the outside and such, should review previous hearings on valuation process. This was from 06/2019. Same players, different day. Also a plethora of relevant links on commentary on this issue on this website, it was posted as an article in that time frame.

In retrospect, what an amazing play they made, to reframe the issue, get better support for radical changes. There is a real problem with appraisers. Something needs to be done. People are getting on board with the need for valuation process reform. Funding is imminent.

Color coded policies should be left in the history books, not rehashed, paraded around in new varied forms. I’m more with the notion that to even attempt to acknowledge there is a problem or to somehow feel compelled to apologize about this perceived slight, is to engage in the problematic side of it. Wait for this misguided effort to lose sail.

As appraisers we are aware of the need for better broadly applied financial education as well as better understanding of construction and home management principals in general. I think the series of home improvement based tv shows are positive events in terms of educational access. What an interesting phenomena, now people expect more. As the largest investment in peoples lives, there should be better education from youth to adult, how to be better stewards of of homes, smart home management, building to affording to buy. More important topics than skepticism and the humanities.

Long track record management factors are strong drivers to value. Many have mistaken these general trends in value and subsequent categorical differences for issues like price and over all home qualities, presuming those differences are purposefully derived from sales agents and appraisers. When in fact, the market and price is set by the participants themselves, buyers and sellers.

Instead of better educational efforts, we’re backtracking to reiteration of basic market principals. Supply and demand drives home price and subsequent market value benchmarks. Appraisers do not move the market needle, that is someone elses department. What is there to apologize for or rebut, except for accusations from the misinformed?

More education for appraisers will not help the masses of market participants. We only deal with any given person one single time, often for only minutes. I’m sorry I can not spend more time with people to provide them this education personally, I give it my best effort. It’s the ones appraisers are not in touch with that need the education the most, renters, impoverished, those reliant on government.

Considering my primary market is above 1 million dollars, I’m sure every seller, buyer, agent, broker, and my lender clients are all okay with me being accurate to within 4.3% (+/- $43,000).

Seek the truth.

If Zillow says their algorithm is within 4.3% accurate, then it must be true? You can’t be serious.

I’m sorry but I have a hard time believing you are an appraiser. An appraiser defending and advocating for Zillow and the Brookings report? That’s a first.

No appraiser in their right mind would believe that racism in appraisals is prevalent. You are more aligned with the Shantel type then appraisers. Have you taken your white privilege training?

My original post that started this thread rigorously gives sources and quotes from those sources. My original post is peerless regarding citations compared to the other responses on this comment thread.

You stated “credible published material is decidedly for rather than against there being systemic racism in the appraisal trade” So what’s the point of citing the study when it doesn’t say anything about appraisals being the cause? or any cause for that matter. In fact you haven’t submitted anything to support you statement. And at the end of the day I am not sure what is the point of any of your posts. I’m finding out that you ramble on like Baggins. I quit reading his posts and engaging with him a long time ago.

The Brookings criterion posted on their website:

“We restrict this analysis to the 113 metropolitan areas with at least one majority Black neighborhood. We also give extra weight in the analysis to metro areas with larger Black populations to reduce the influence of measurement error; as such, the estimates should be thought of as characterizing the experience of the average Black person living in different types of metropolitan areas.”

If the majority-black neighborhoods are worth less…seems straightforward and easy to understand to me.

Once again, The Brookings study doesn’t say anything. Just gives you data between two data sets. That’s why “everyone” can understand it. It does not ask why. The same study could be done on a town of 30,000 with all white people and it will give you data that says homes on the west side sell higher than homes on the east side. Therefore you have east side “devaluation”. But we need to ask why are east side homes valued less? So, Why are black neighborhoods $48,000 less? The list is long. The many answers are facts, some are stereotypes and many answers are an uncomfortable truth.

The appraisers are the messenger of the data, Not the manufactures.

I’m guessing you are referring to the AEI report? What I am saying about the AEI report is that I don’t understand it. I know that you don’t understand it. It is intentionally written to be hard to understand by anyone so the methodology won’t be called into question by partisans who only understand the conclusion of the report. The AEI report had no intended reader of the report when it was written as far as I can tell. The AEI report was written only with the conclusion in mind: that there is no racism in appraisals to serve as a talking point for partisans who badly need its conclusion due to the paucity of support in the intellectual marketplace giving support to no racism claims. The AEI report has had no coverage. It has had no peer review. I can barely find references to it anywhere. The report looks like it was written in Microsft Word in someone’s basement.

In contrast, The Brookings Institute report is clear and easy to understand by just about everyone. It has had wide coverage in the media and has been picked apart by just about everyone who cares about this issue over the last two years. And despite all that, it is still quoted in the present day in media coverage.

“….the call to force appraisers into a new line of education is tied to an illogical premise of perceived racism which does not actually exist…”

The preponderance of credible published material is decidedly for rather than against there being systemic racism in the appraisal trade. Also, the latter rather than the former being true owing to your stubborn refusal to cite any credible sources. You imploring that I do my own research to support your position is not well received by me.

Not too sure you read the article. I don’t know if one would call it speculation. He does bring up a line of questions that need to answered by Mrs Horton. A list of motives that not only fall in line but too many to be coincidental. It’s been 5 months and she hasn’t filed a complaint with the state board or filed a civil case. The only thing she has done was create a web page so you can hire her to speak at your event about racism. “https://www.abenahorton.com” This along with the non-human appraisal products that her company is selling means the proof of her accusations are all on her. BTW, check out all the links at the bottom of her web page. She did this story so she could get exposure for her real motives. $$$$$$$$. I wonder if Black Knight also paid her a bonus to do this so the company can push their products?

Do you also dismiss a pretty compressive study by a reliable source that concludes racism in appraisal is Uncommon & Not Systematic?

Are there racist appraisers? Out of 88,000 of us…I’m sure there are few. There are racists in every aspect of life worldwide. But to say it’s a widespread and longstanding discrimination problem as Abena’s little minion Shantel says….., data suggest otherwise.

From the Zillow website:
“Zillow is constantly working to improve the Zestimate. When Zillow launched 11 years ago, the Zestimate had a median absolute error rate of 14 percent. Today, the algorithm’s accuracy is within 4.3 percent nationwide, meaning half of Zestimates nationwide were within 4.3 percent of the final selling price, and half are off by more than 4.3 percent.”

https://www.zillow.com/blog/zestimate-220693/

What I am saying about the AEI report is that I don’t understand their data sources and I have never used any of their claimed data sources. I’m pretty sure that you don’t understand it either. And who is the intended reader of this report? Academics? What universities are doing the peer review? Are the intended readers appraisers? There is no appraiser parlance used in the report and I see no indication that the report is for appraisers. And forget about loan officers and mortgage brokers. They have a hard enough time reading a 1004 as it is.

Tell me, who was this report written for?

I’m going to guess that this report was written as red meat for partisans so the conclusion that there is no racism in appraisals becomes a talking point while the report itself is not questioned because it is deliberately incomprehensible.

When did lack of meaningful employment opportunity which leads to lower home prices suddenly become the appraisers fault? Perhaps we should redirect the blame to realtors. The sales agents after all, kept agreeing to low pricing. There are other people involved that deserve to share the joy of this witch hunt. Toss in some underwriters and jr reviewers if the mob demands fresh meat. If things get really bad, haul out the county assessor from the crypt.

I’ll take systemic racism in realty for $2,000 Alex!

Q: When two sales agents and one mortgage banker write a contract, form a price, and finalize a sales transaction, whom is to blame if the price is low due to area economic factors?

A: The appraiser!

To the extent that the guest writer is engaged in mostly speculation that there must be another side to the story (the fallacy of “bothsidesism”), I don’t find the guest writer’s opinion piece compelling at all. I actually wasn’t aware that the Hortons were an interracial couple but to assert for this reason that there was no racism is a bit of sophistry. There is a lack of self-awareness by the guest writer that interracial marriages have only been legal in the United States since 1967. It would be naive to think that racism towards interracial couples simply disappeared after 1967. Given this recent (and astonishing history), there is no way to dismiss out of hand the veracity of Mrs Horton’s claim of racism. The guest writer’s dismissiveness is entirely based on speculation.

West, a few years ago, the then Zillow CEO Spencer Rascoff in a Bloomberg TV interview stated that 17% of Zestimates are more than 25% WRONG. With over 100 million homes with an average price of $280k that means that 17 million of them have zestimates more than 25% incorrect. To make matters even worse, Zillow refuses all requests from homeowners to correct or delete these substantially inaccurate Zestimates. So again, why should we rely on a report which is based on Zillow data?

Do you have proof that the data used in the AEI report is inaccurate? Until you do, I’ll rely on the AEI report rather than the brookings report.

FYI, the Brookings study believes that appraisers determine market value when we simply opine on it using empirical evidence.

Appraiser West,
You seem a little late to the party. Do you know the Hortons are not a black couple? Do you know anything about Abena Horton? What she has said before her appraisal about appraisers? Who she works for? What have been her actions (or inactions) over the last five months after her appraisal?

http://appraisersblogs.com/why-is-only-one-side-of-the-racism-claim-appraisal-story-being-reported

If you don’t know the answers check back with me.

Also the Bookings Institute is just a study of a data set. Does not answer any questions or even ask why.

How private industry influences government and law. If you don’t know your history you are condemned to repeat it. There is nothing anti government about me, except to recognize the proper intent of government is to protect liberties, not to direct ideologies or change financial futures.

People on this website analyzed the Hortons in detail in numerous articles prior to this. I don’t recall you being there and you certainly overlooked bonafied data already presented which is dealing with these topics at hand. You can use the little search tool in the upper right window or backtrack through the dozen of articles already posted on the matter. Your informational resource is already at hand. What to make of the executive of a major financial institution whom apparently wanted to cry wolf rather than pursue proper well established avenues of reconsideration of value or complaints to regulatory authorities. Please don’t try to claim that every instance of value shopping by borrowers now constitutes underlying appraisal racism.

The HUD link is entirely relevant because as the call to force appraisers into a new line of education is tied to an illogical premise of perceived racism which does not actually exist, the classes have a high probability of seeking to direct appraisers beyond the limited scope of actual existing fair housing laws. Therefore it is proper to assist appraisers on education regarding what the real law is, vs what people may seek to portray it as.

The question of access is always there. There are stages of a loan and milestones along the way which are important. Just getting into a home is not the finish line. Being a sale or refinance is mostly irrelevant pertaining to the accusations.

It is a shame the journalists don’t constrain themselves to only verifiable sources, purposefully avoiding important and meaningful data presented to them which disproves the supposed position. But hey, without the headline, there would be no paper. Sensationalist journalism at it’s finest, one step up from clickbait and feral cat videos. You’re not doing much better with the grating approach, imho.

No she’s not. She’s a racist.