THANKS

Working fine now – no idea why it didn’t before except I was getting a Spam sign to fill out that didn’t work…nothing today.

What is “anti-bot”. . .? Comments appears to be working ok.

Fix your comments anti-bot verification on linked article CA. Article was interesting. Not subscribing because I won’t work that hard to post something just to be frustrated by defective features.

A Few Comments on This MAI-Garbage Appraisal Prepared by CARNEGHI

Panelists include Kathleen Fahey Poulton, SRA, AI-RRS – Manager of Appraisers, Fremont BankJohn Hibbard – Senior Appraiser, The Meridian Valuation GroupPaul Chandler, MAI – Founder & CEO, The Property Sciences Group Alex Gilbert – California Bank and Trust Rebecca Frederick – Appraiser, Valbridge Property Advisors Norm Hulberg, MAI – Senior Managing Director, Valbridge Property Advisors John Brenan – Director of Appraisal Issues, The Appraisal Foundation Greg Harding – Vice Chair, AQB, The Appraisal Foundation

Nicely said!

THAT is exactly what Id hope all will do.

WTO-True. Imagine getting a state complain ton one of these things? Id love to see the work files highest and best use analysis and EAs….and then try to justify reliance on ‘broker’ inspection that turns out to be done by his handyman.

Nice, great and necessary perspective. The specialty requirements of this industry is only limited by the real property itself. This is real property. We analyze the wild, zany, and unpredictable approaches of salesmen and their customers, in highly diverse settings. Don’t forget straight up incompetency or aggression. The regression and pure numerical extraction approach presumes the standard MV definitions are always valid, that people are always well informed. The hard truth of market participation is there are many winners, many losers, and a few lucky participants whom are even keel. This is why simple descriptions like it’s an art not a science are necessary to properly describe the appraisers participatory position, and why field specialties beyond just math and tech matter a great deal. We qualify data not just on data, but also on other sometimes non measurable difficult to disclose factors. We analyze real property on the basis of real property and all the complex human factors behind that.

They may or may not have degrees. Background experience in real estate sales, construction, law, title insurance underwriting and even surveying can be directly useful to appraisers.

Give me a former roofer, or pool contractor, or soils engineer (engineers often need ‘tempering’ to see market perceptions rather than absolutes). In a rural area, someone with experience installing septic systems is of more value to me as an appraiser than the NASA scientist and astronaut. (apologies to Eileen and husband Steve!!!). 

My favorite team of eight trainees were all ALTA land inspectors. Some had degrees – some did not. It made no difference.

Much more so than a degree in geography (though even that can be useful in land use analyses), and especially more relevant than degrees in literature/liberal arts, medicine, and physical education.

Most of us would think a degree in math, economic or statistical analysis would be extremely helpful, but in reading many arguments for regression and Big Data, it appears that some leaders in those fields believe computerized data replaces all else. 

They understand the phrase “Location, Location, Location” to mean “the area you have to increase the market size being considered in ordered to obtain meaningful numbers of datasets.” No matter that the results are wrong as long as the process math is right.

They miss the much more important underlying fundamental concept. That the location is finite.

In their arrogance, they think they can assign deviation ratings that somehow justify invalid data’s use. Need proof? Compare the national median home price to that of your specific primary market area (City of County). Both are presumably correct. But aside from showing generalized trends, neither tells you what your neighbors house overlooking the ocean (or hog farm) is worth.

We need people who can build homes and understand mechanical systems and how labor costs relate to real property. Going to college is not going to help, customers (students) just learn to cheat more effectively. College has become pay to play. This industry needs independents whom do not subscribe to the submissive structure of employment based cultures. If a person does not understand the components of a home, how can they be trained to apply relative value to those components? The last thing we need is another math whiz kid or tech guy in this industry, we need general contractors and lots of them.

I disagree with RRs statement about 4 year degrees. Maybe 25 years ago with Hoskold and Inwood financial tables this may have been necessary but not anymore. Would advanced algebra be helpful? Sure. Or, I can just use eXcel.

Is algebra/college necessary? Nope. Is it required to assure  broader foundational education? Again no. I first read Dante’s Inferno in the fourth grade; and routinely read Michener, Uris, Homer and a host of others by the 6th.

Education takes many forms. All an appraiser needs is relevant education and that can be obtained from the AI, ASA, NAIFA, McKissock and a host of others including community colleges.

I’m reminded of my time as a senior appraiser at IRS. One of my two best friends & associates was an MAI; & the other was a former Alabama enforcement official. The MAI correct my punctuation and I corrected his spelling. “Bubba” corrected us both.

Two of us spoke English and a tiny bit of Spanish; Bubba spoke Southern, and a tiny bit of English. We still maintain contact – though Bubbas hard to understand sometimes. My going to college wouldn’t help that any.

Respectfully, not 100% accurate David. Early in the existence of USPAP most states had laws saying in effect  “No matter what euphemisms you use, an opinion of value called by any other names is still an appraisal and had to conform to USPAP.” In the early days in my state (and most others) it didn’t matter whether it was for an FRT or not. If you were licensed. An Evaluation in California performed by an appraiser WAS an appraisal. Admittedly, that’s changed over the years.

Now that TAF is in the business of selling R.E. Appraiser education courses (including one on evaluations) they have no incentive to tell people up front that while you can do these things; the ability to do so in a USPAP compliant and economic manner that suits most required turn around times is virtually impossible. If they did that, then why would anyone take John’s courses?

I agree absolutely that we can do these types of assignments. They can even be done credibly and in compliance with USPAP, but as your own last paragraph says-not for anything near the kind of fees being offered. That being the case; isn’t time to end the pretense? People like yourself that fully understand the parameters don’t need anyone else to tell them they can or cannot do something. You already know.

Many others don’t.

There is no greater objection than absence. They get so many rejections, they’re using form letters these days. I know of one appraiser, who’s tried out some of these.  She’s got a great handle on ethical compliance, perhaps views held by yesterday more than today but relevant and reliable none the less. She says 4 hours minimum. I want to do the driving part for $25 dollars. If I could get paid 25 dollars to drive by and snap a picture of a single home, that’s not bad. If I have to call, schedule, and go inside, we’re going to have to move back to my standard minimum of $150 inspection though. If I have to develop a workfile with that, add $200. If I have to submit any sort of detailed report beyond a single page, add another $200. I don’t know, my standard minimum turn time is 1 week. Add $150 for any rush service less than 7 days. Now that I’m dealing with new forms and such, let’s tag another $50 on there until I can personally verify if there is time savings or not. I’d bet those appraisers whom blow hot air about being experts in their market which is why they can flip 2 a day, I’d bet those guys would go for this. Add chauffeur and outsourced data typing services costs of course. Datamaster is going to have to come down real real far on their price to accommodate this one.

“Learn to read my standard fee billing map.” Q

She’s on like that nearly full time Dave, but showing signs of improvement. At least this rant it was not all the fault of trump supporters, or perhaps she just forgot to mention that. You’re in the cross hairs now. Weaponized media is real, it does strange things to peoples minds. Q Anon ought to have this sorted out shortly. Internet; currently on fire.

BTW, it’s not your job to discredit someone’s else’s appraisal in a court case. Once you do that, you are an advocate, not an appraiser.

Are you off your meds or something?

I never once stated that these reports were actually use in the courtroom. I never stated that I did not do my research, requiring any and all information about the property that the client has, which includes a summary of relevant interior information, including photos, upgrades, etc. I never stated that I don’t go down to the municipal office to view the building/planning file on the property, which includes surveys, permits, plans, variances, etc. I never stated that I don’t review the deeds in these cases. You just assumed that and went off on an unprofessional rant.

Fact is, in the real world, not all properties can be inspected at certain points in time. An example I may do this is in a contentious divorce where property access is currently not permitted with an order by a court, and an attorney may need to get a ballpark figure in order to know whether to settle or proceed. There have been cases where the other side’s estimate is even less than the underlying land value, readily established in the marketplace. Therefore, that no inspection appraisal has great value.

If they decide to proceed, a full appraisal will be ordered. In the 20 years since I started doing litigation appraisals, not once has the preliminary appraisal been presented in court. It would not matter anyway, because there are typically two pages of narrative relating to the level of inspection, data collections, and disclaimers related to potential issues if the data collected/received is not accurate. Plus they would have the appraisal with the inspection completed.

This is not lowering standards.

FWIW, I am very familiar with what goes on at the state level, and typically know all the board members from downstate here in NY, know the investigators, have recommend RAs to state (those who do the reviews on file that the state needs reviewed), and have presented issues before the board that were subsequently implemented in the regulations.

You need to work on your reading comprehension and your attitude.