I totally disagree. I think that any area partially below grade should not be GLA especially in spilts or trilevels. I would rather be adjusting for differences in above grade and below grade living areas to equate for differences

PH, aside from the historic differences commonly found between assessed GLA and physical SF (unpermitted areas, rounding by assessor or appraiser, changes made after plan submissions, etc.), there is the issue of ANSI.

FNMA and Freddie Mac adopted these. They make sense for linear distances (measured to 1/10th foot OR more commonly to one inch if using non-engineering measuring tools. No great disparity arises from these.

The real problem arises when ANSI is applied to PERMITTED areas, considered by the assessment districts to be finished, habitable area, but ANSI defines them as non-living area. Any area that is all OR PARTIALLY below grade is not deemed by ANSI to be part of the GLA.

While that makes sense for real basements (all below grade or with only tiny head-high windows above grade), it makes zero sense for split levels, built and intended as gla and perceived by market participants as GLA.

ANSI is not an official government agency of any kind. It is a voluntary standards organization that has clearly exceeded its level of competency regarding room and bathroom counts.

Many appraisers don’t fully understand their arbitrary and subjective ANSI ‘rules’ or guidance that have been adopted by GSEs. It’s no wonder that consumers have trouble accepting it as having any degree of credibility.

This is yet another example of both FHFA and TAF failing in their mutual obligations to protect the public trust.

Again, the objective of adopting a common measuring technique or standard made sense. The ANSI ROOM count guidelines make no sense at all.

My parents’ first house (circa 1958) was a tri-level split-level. Entry was 2-3 steps (about 24 inches above grade). Entry was into a foyer with the living room to the left and a kitchen to the right.

Passing through the LR or Kitchen/DA, steps up and down led to the bedrooms and bath, and a fully finished family room with heat that was vented, as was the rest of the house, and a separate utility room (unfinished). The family room was about 3 feet below grade at the rear of the house, where waist-high picture windows overlooked the back yard. The utility room and family room were at the same grade height. The mix was about 60% finished family room, and 40% unfinished utility room on the other side of a door.

Today, both the room count AND the living area of that tri-level split would be significantly reduced to less than what actually exists.

Solely because a non-governmental volunteer organization was given greater credibility as a standards arbiter than they deserved or ever earned through normal market acceptance.

The standards were arbitrarily declared in effect by the incompetent and demonstratively fraudulent organization known as The Federal National Mortgage Association (FNMA). An organization proven to be so inept and incompetent as to be required by Congress to be placed in Conservatorship, after the Great Recession of 2008.

A conservatorship that remains to this day. A conservatorship that indirectly lead FNMA to start engaging in fraudulent, quota-driven loan buyback demands of very low-interest Covid-era loans, circa 2022-2023 when rate started increasing, and no one would buy 2% loans.

False representations were made to federally regulated lenders that appraisals submitted in support of those loans were fatally flawed, when in fact FNMA was LYING about having “reviewed” them, AND the allegations (in a great many of instances) that the appraisals were not compliant with USPAP of the vague and ambiguous FNMA Selling Guide.

One can only hope that under the new FHFA leadership of Mr. Pulte; and possibly some input from Mark Calabria who has been kept abreast of many complaints against the GSE(s) since before his current appointment, that the new Administration will hold both management and specific appraisal reviewers at FNMA accountable for this fraud.

A fraud that harmed many, many appraisers when false “TIP” (complaints) were made by FNMA to state regulators. For those willing to try to defend the GSE’s fraudulent actions, keep in mind I have the actual appraisals and complaints in my files for those appraisers who were also AGA Members on whose behalf we intervened. In addition to two insiders and some former FNMA employees.

People need to go to jail for this deliberate fraud by the GSE.

THEN we need to ensure that ANSI is only used to dictate how linear dimensions are taken and reported. Eliminating their room count guidance or dictates, completely.

What about the Statue of limitations.
OR what about the worth of the signee, or whether or not he has insurance.
Liability can be defended by a defendant, an insurance co. or not.
A legal document can be almost anything thing Look at Trump or Biden, or Hillary.
Appraisers MUST defend themselves and also most professionals who keep a successful reputation.

Links to Mueller reports

https://appraisersblogs.com/mueller-REO-hybrid-appraisal-report-vs-USPAP

https://appraisersblogs.com/sample-mueller-bifurcated-appraisal-report

Your point is the primary objection I have always had regarding these products. That and the quality of Harry Aluminum Can Collector’s actual data provided. Look up samples for a Mueller Reports Bifurcated Hybrid. I thought there was one we all analyzed here in AB?

The “deemed to be qualified or competent language is embedded in the form itself.”

There is a comment above Concerning Certification #19 Saying to the effect the appraiser certifies the Joe the Inspector/PDR collector is Qualified ; Question is that certification #19 on the Fannie Mae Desktoppy/burb it up report. I would like to read that certification. Can someone direct me to that form? If this is true that is HUGE…How the Hell do I know if Harry the Aluminum Can Collector-Part Time Home Inspector is Qualified?

Pat

Reliable pricing was the most important issue with our trustworthy forefathers. Those forefathers with little stores on the prairie needed reliability in pricing to be ability to sell a plough, stove or a kitchen sink.

Every farmer kept an almanac, and or a catalogue out back. Many catalogues’ companies-built reputations with their advertising in the house out back.

Now those houses are changing, and PUBLIC TRUST, is highly questionable.
Appraisers and other must insist on individual trust.

Say what you do: do what you say and defend your work.

Pricing is pretty important.

That old shit house ain’t no good no more.

R. A.
We I, us, always does good. Its always the others; the agents, brokers, teachers, Realtors, Big money, The Polititians, whoever.
I also go into retirement conscience free, and not gritting my teeth Happy with my engagement letter and mostly my fees.
Don’t just fill out somebody elses FORM

Good on you Joe.
Learn more and do the best, if it ain’t right, figure it out.
Information changes all the time.
Don’t WEBSTERS publish a new book ever year, Ain’t Elsteins idea’s only a theorem? Why would an educated, dedicated group push forward?

Buyers are emotionally attached to the property, real estate agents are financially attached to the property as are the lenders; appraisers come in unattached to anything about the property. If the appraisal comes in below contracted price everybody throws a hissy fit. During Covid Realtors got all giddy when there was a bidding war and got all bunchy when the appraisal come in below CSP. What most people don’t realize is that sales agents have a fiduciary relationship to the seller; they are under contract to get the most they can for the seller. Appraisers keep things in check, but every aspect of society these days do not want to be kept in check. This is just another step in the downfall of this great country, just like the Roman Empire, it was not taken down by another empire, it crumbled from within, morally, financially and ethically, the US is sadly following the same scenario.

All is well here Pat.

Too busy with phony FNMA ‘complaints’ against appraisers from their Collateral Underwriter Repurchase Enforcement (CURE Underwriter Teams), & LQC Team E.

Inside sources from FNMA told us last week (guessing the actual time was about two weeks ago…leaks take a while to reach us) that FNMA DC has told FNMA Houston to stop leaking information to the outside. Guess they never heard of Whistleblower protection laws.

But they are upset that inside info keeps popping up on blogs and on FaceBook and other online sites.

Promise to keep this quiet *g*…Apparently, DC wants the repurchases ramped up to sanitize the portfolio of loans they are trying to foist off err I mean to sell to “investors” as Triple-A paper instead of toilet paper.

What’s surprising isn’t that they are trying to clean up a sketchy loan portfolio. It’s that they still have investors (other than the U.S. Treasury)!

Anyway, tell your folks in Virginia that anything with a CU score over 3.0 from 2021-present seems to be fair game now. Not just high 3’s either. I expect to see over 2.5s to 3.s next. Probably nothing to it, but Missouri complaints seemed to be in the vicinity of Ferguson (slightly northward), and Georgia seems around Atlanta. Good thing I’m not cynical or I’d be wondering if it has anything to do with race too? Probably just a coincidence.

Anyway, despite claiming ‘after review’ in their notices to banks and later state regulators, there is no hint of USPAP compliance on the FNMA’s part. Heck, their ‘complaints are so spurious in nature that most aren’t even signed anymore.

It’s going to get really interesting when they fully implement the “Value Acceptance” process. They claim there won’t be any repurchases, BUT these are the same folks that once claimed collateral underwriter wouldn’t be used to rate or review appraisers either.

Stay in touch, Pat!

Value Acceptance seems too bland a name. Not very descriptive either. Im thinking we need to have a contest for a new term to describe that new service.

I claim “Collateral FRAUDULATOR” for my submission!

Most of us are buying value in trade, When those twelve GRANDE KIDS move in with you, ITS value in trade. Close on it to day don’t let it go higher

Already have reached out to them and they let me in the club!!!

Mike I hope you are doing well

Thank you “#4”! That means a lot coming from you. Hope your health is OK. BTW reach out to Mark and Josh T. on the upcoming CFPB discussion(s).

Hi Dave, thanks for the kind words. I agree that many agents haven’t a clue as to how to adjust. On the other hand, any agent that regularly works their farm area can qualitatively compare and price the property correctly. They don’t have to do it the same we do.

Clearly, managing brokers have been remiss in their obligations. It’s also amazing how many agents think they work for themselves rather than a broker.

Let me share a true story:

Back in ‘1986 before I tossed in the towel as an agent (sold from ’71-late 74 & again in ’84-86); my Dad and I (he was a broker since the mid 1960s) were going to co-list an sfr in my farm area. An area I grew up in, within a couple blocks of the high school I went to (or one of them anyway).

Given it sided to a fire station and was technically three lots outside of the preferred sub-neighborhood we proposed a listing price of around $170k. The owner wanted $185 or 190k NOT A PRAYER!

My Dad and I both worked for two different Coldwell Banker offices. I called him in to double-check my misgivings about the value. We both agreed, better to decline the listing than to take a seriously overpriced one.

One of my co-workers heard my later conversation with the owner and asked if I’d be ok if he called them? I said, “no problem, but even if you get the listing, it will never appraise.”

Anyway, he listed AND CLOSED that sale for $185,000 less than a month later (basically 10% over the HIGH end from closed sales). All cash buyers; less than 30-day escrow.

It taught me two things: Markets change (including those I think I knew like the back of my hand); and in an increasing market with declining rates, it’s not too wise to insist on being right based on historic data rather than listening to the owners ‘gut’ too. BTW $185,000 for that property was the “ain’t no way in you know what” price that should not have sold period.

In some markets, no one really knows what’s happening ‘today’. We assume yesterday will apply today. Sometimes markets jump in giant leaps no one can anticipate accurately.

You & I have to seek the most probable price under specific circumstances. Agents have to try to get the highest price possible within sellers’ specific circumstances (time, net, conditions, etc).

Some agents TRY to get it right. In rapid increase periods, they have to take what they can get, or someone else will do the same thing to them that my Dad & I did to ourselves.

I haven’t lost all hope for the profession yet. I think we are going to have a boom reviewing FNMA waiver values for litigation related to predatory lending or investor fraud down the road. I HAVE pretty much lost any faith I once had in TAF & some of our regulators.

As long as she continues to OVER list, an agent will keep a license.

A lot of houses encourage to continuously re-sell to both their client and to a buyer. Many, most houses sell after being relisted at a lower price.

the appraiser is held to a specific time.

Mike,

My experience has been most brokers do not know how to come up with a value, as they use MLS CMA formats, price it to what the seller wants, I would honestly say only about 5% of the brokers I deal with know how to comp and adjust etc. for example they get hung up on sf or lot size as gospel. I agree the govt has screwed us repeatedly, now the hybrid report which looks like an appraisal but is not. After 30 years doing this, I have lost all hope this profession will make it, my daughter backed out as she saw no future in it. I respect your point of view and dialogue

Dave, It could just as reasonably be a testament to the ability of brokers and agents to price property accurately most of the time. I concur that may be the perception but it is one without convincing data to support it. Despite OUR elitist beliefs, we aren’t the only ones who can get value right. The market we emulate does it all the time. Why would it be unreasonable to accept that people who earn their living selling real estate would have no idea how to price it?

Any loss to our credibility is primarily directly attributable to the recent generally false claims of bias; a President that confessed the federal government had been systematically biased in housing for decades…and who then decided to scapegoat the appraisers for it. HIS confession of OUR (purported) guilt!

ATF has also failed miserably to protect or preserve the public trust in the profession. That was THEIR job! They were more interested in building their own empire instead. (The President of TAF reportedly earns about the same as Doctor Fauci did…the highest paid guy in civil service.)

Irish again!