Shoe really is on other foot now. I don’t mind a bit about turning an AMC into state boards. RE coming back to us – not unlike the old Loan Officers we used to tell “no” to…3 to 6 months later they’d be back to say it was all a misunderstanding…or the more honest ones would say “You were right. We went with the guy that told us he could get it done, but we had even more trouble because he didn’t know what he was doing at all.”

It’s all relative anyways so I’m on about human logic as the primary basis for analysis. It’s just, never use see addenda, never leave a line blank, and no more than one page of pre written.

Funny jokes appraisers used to tell; I actually know less about this real estate market after reading this report. The report was so thin, a breeze took it off the desk and it went straight into the trash can. Appraise with the ghosts of a thousand underwriters and the full chain of illogical stipulations I previously received, lurking behind me.

The world is what we make of it and this long series of events pertaining to the rise of middle management is a direct result of poor understanding regarding the power of patronage and consumerism in free markets. The majority of members in this industry choose not to represent themselves in an effective manner. Appraisers need to tighten the belt and do what is necessary to achieve victory, and that means a personal boycott regardless of the consequences and what other appraisers are doing. Leads for days, all it takes is to land one. Try the HUD M&M guys, the FNMA direct REO panels, apply at the VA, get with a RELO company, scroll through the top 100 originating lenders list, consistently prioritize direct assignment orders so those lenders look better, ignore the grading nonsense and market, market, market. Easy.The amc powerhouse is an illusion based on intention of the appraisers themselves. If appraisers are waiting for someone to correct this engagement for them, they don’t understand the depth of the need to qualify acceptable engagement for each and every single individual order. Get mean, posture hardline. It’s really easy and takes less effort than playing mr nice guy. Thank you for reading the blogs. Lurk less, post more, network!

Holy Shinto!  Please provide your best base estimate with just the base fine, not daily, for total occurrences.  Seriously, someone should post a request in a legal magazine or round table type site.  We don’t have to take the entire industry down and the fines could be logically limited to the total business and personal asset liquidity of the offending parties.  Previously you may recall me advocating for fines based on income…  Also you might recall clever taglines like incentivize the problem.  Both are applicable more than ever right here right now today.  You guys know lawyers, get on the horn, pronto!  This is not just a passive blog post request, this needs to happen.  Let it happen, make the calls.

I’ve been making the same argument for year Baggins, but I think your numbers are WaaaaaaY to low (# of cases). In fact, the fines are so big, that if applied per law, the entire banking industry would collapse, thus I truly believe the crime is too big to enforce in the eyes of the CFPB and others. If per their numbers by way of the collateral underwriter (CU), they’ve received over 23 million appraisals, and assuming 80% went through AMC’s, and thus the fees were not C&R, the numbers are alarming. In taking the 80%, you’re looking at 18,400,000 potential cases. I believe the $10,000 fine is per single occurrence, and applies daily until addressed. If you have a single violation from 8 years ago (2,920 days), the running fine would be $10,000 X 2,920 days or $29,200,000. On a side note, I’ve always found it funny when lenders claim the CFPB pulls fine numbers ($$) out of their ass, but yet when clearly defined, ($10,000 C&R daily fines), the CFPB has looked the other way.

It’s important to stress why companies no longer request appraisers fee schedules, and why they no longer abide community set free market fees. The litmus test towards a customary and reasonable fee is; A fee that the majority of your panel appraisers will accept without need for negotiation or re assignment. The fact they have to shop for fees is an outright indicator they are not paying C&R. TRID took an old methodology and applied it in a new realm of operations where there were new parties involved.

Nationally the fees are adequate, absent unnecessary middle management with hands in the jar. Attorneys perhaps are unaware of the magnitude of their potential payout if they would get into this fight. Dodd Frank Reg Z C&R, 10k first instance, 20k daily fine every instance there after. About a million instances or more already… What’s the legal rake on that class action? Please sign me up, where do I sign?

New venture; Propose this to the nations premier class action law firm? This was proposed 10 years ago but it did not make financial sense. These companies have grown unchecked and have raked over half of the valuation industries operational income and taken it for their own, applying corporate profits at levels never seen before in honest business realms. There is so much money to be made with class action, honestly I don’t understand why lawyers are diddling around with employee wage cases when C&R 10k/20k could represent a ten billion dollar case by now.

Are you guys understanding why now that these companies have grown so big, they have accelerated plans to remove appraisers? They must move swiftly because this is their most vulnerable point. The storm is coming. Post a help wanted add in an attorney mag; The entire real estate valuation industry of licensed appraisers requests your presence to purse what is likely a 10b dollar class action against a limited array of tech focused middle management companies. Per dodd frank reg z, 10k/20k fine rules, per instance, approximately 1m instances or more. Easy, post it. Make it so. Get things moving.

AMC’s are baking their brains every night trying to figure out how to keep that $600 fee without actually having to pay an Appraiser for the work. And they are succeeding I’m afraid at keeping most of it – and WITHOUT DISCLOSURE!! Is there an Attorney in the house??? I feel violated.

Price Fixing starts by banks and AMCs BEFORE the applicant ever speaks to the loan officer!

They sought a national one size fits all price and AMC model. Coester used to brag that he was the first to provide it through his MS. It used to be $450-$500. Now it’s $600-$650 thanks largely to VaCAP and coincident market forces.

The problem is that THIS is the fee quoted by Loan Officers before the TRID is ever filled out and signed. Well before any AMC sends out a ‘bid’ request (which is pure illusion since the fees are already set), or assigns the order.

FTC needs to investigate the Bankers League and all the other lobbying and trade groups affiliated with Banking and Mortgage Banking groups in America that magically developed this $600 to $650 ‘range’ of “market” rates for appraisals. Until cost plus pricing is developed there can be no competitive market driven appraisal pricing. ALL appraisers do now is bid within the predetermined range already established by the bank and AMC.

The regulatory mechanisms of government currently no longer function adequately in a broad swath of fields from money to tech to medicine. Read the map. It’s up to us now. We regular citizen consumers drive the free markets with each and every patronage choice and consumer spending action, down to the dime, nickle, and penny. Participants in this industry mainly harmed themselves, capitulating to unacceptable assignment condition terms on a regular basis. They have no one to blame but themselves. Oh government, save me from my indebted lifestyle, my inability to say no, my inadequate financial position, please make these companies pay me more! Sound familiar? Appraisers postured like fast food workers with hands out and no other options, and they received in return, a regular employee position.

RE: The now infamous but discarded HUD1 alternative proposed form the CFPB failed to select, which did indeed show the separation of fees. They all knew one day there would be a call to audit amc’s nationally, that’s why lobbying was so heavy on that one item of going concern.

Retired Appraiser vs Dr Manhattan. I’ve got my money on the appraiser, that’s why I’m still in it to win it. I never was very good at sharing, not with people who take and never give back.

Magic 8 ball was shown a photo of amc lobbyists outnumbering appraisers and the answer to your question is currently visible in the viewing window.

Bill, we’re talking identical language, but in different terms. Please see my post below and I hope you’ll adopt a more legalese language because I feel that will be better received by the various rule makers. 10 years I have been on with that idea, and finally have an accurate legal description of the events at hand. Everyone is on about amc’s, many direct outfits are testing these operational patterns as well. If we focus only on amc’s, the ailments will merely shift from one location to another with even less oversight. The fix will remain in place because the appraisal fee continues to be shared and therefore the distributors have a personal interest rather than simply passing market rate costs to the consumers. Distributor staff are rarely if ever actual appraisers and not subject to the same oversight as us licensed individuals are. If possible I patronize with lenders whom have consistent fixed minimum fees I can rely on regardless of volume, and also have a senior licensed appraiser actually running the daily operations. The best distributors employ far fewer tech people, and let the appraiser in charge actually run things.

Thanks so much Pat

Is anyone at the FTC considering the GROSS profits that the AMCs are making by raising costs to consumers and then skimming as much as they can from the Independent Appraiser with bully tactics and “technology” fees. All this while shopping for 2 weeks without disclosure to the consumer??? All while Appraisers are screaming to be heard.

It boggles my mind that the AMC’s are making $Billions while being the direct Instigator of the so-called Appraiser Shortage. There is a shortage… of Appraisers TIME and RESOURCES.

I used to work with 4 Appraisers and 2 staff people – now it’s just me and a 10 year old car.

Respectfully, not a pragmatic view. Also not especially applicable or accurate here. A minority of FTC commissioners appointed under a prior administration – quite possibly not even enough for a quorum took up the LA case at the urging of special interests that don’t want to pay C&R fees.

It may very well be necessary for us to ask the feds to take over full control of all licensing under FIRREA. Because if there is anyone that can screw up implementation of federal laws (such as FIRREA and Dodd Frank) FASTER and more thoroughly than the feds, it is the 50 U.S. States and 4 of the 7 Territories only 4 of which are large enough to have appraisals or appraisal laws making 54 different versions of local (state) implementing laws.

WTO, what we currently have are federal laws interpreted by a private organization (TAF) that is subject to the whims and special interests of sponsors that include the likes of Corelogic and lending interests that serve on its Board of Trustees and Sponsors committees.

TAF in turn reinterprets USPAP every two years like clockwork whether it needs it or not. It further arbitrarily decides when and how to exclude otherwise qualified members of the public from the profession (presently unstated inferences being it was only non degreed people that perform bad appraisals – never the designated or college educated – get ready, new scapegoats will be needed very soon!).

Further, this PRIVATE TAF organization coordinates with a PRIVATE lobbying group (AARO) comprised of state regulators to develop or promote spurious rationales for side stepping USPAP in their own investigations.

The end result is a regulatory system where states are actually rewarded for coercing consent agreements from appraisers, rather than properly investigating the issues. Most appraisers do not have the resources to fight them. Most E&O companies CHOOSE not to fight them (easier to offer you $2,500 toward your $25,000; $50,000 or even $150,000 legal defense costs).

We’ve seen what it takes to even try to get one single state to adopt meaningful AMC or DF enforcement laws…and what then happens. Notice FTC did not file suit against the United States Congress that passed Dodd Frank? Think about that.

In the end, the only governmental agency that CAN resolve ALL the problems appraisers have in remaining unbiased professionals IS the Federal Government. I’d nominate the ASC, but there are other alternatives as well…such as HUD.

Either directly (they own the AMC), or indirectly (their buddies own the AMC), the current AMC system is a secondary profit stream where as they get to keep the spread. The borrower is not being protected when they must blindly entrust the lender to spend their appraisal fee on the best qualified professional available. The borrower is a pawn in the eye of the lender.