Increasingly, I keep hearing MAIs saying they only maintain their membership because of the purported imprimatur of being an MAI.

Last week I talked to an SRPA that simply decided to keep using the designation and not pay the AI for it.

Being an MAI used to mean something special. The training and reference materials put out by the AI (back when it was the AIREA) were among the best, without compromise to standards or principles.

Now, merely three decades later, after too many free passes from the AI ethics enforcement groups on MAI abuses, and increasingly widespread use of sophistry in lieu of principles where ethics arguments sound more and more like partisan political discussions; the reputation of the AI itself has become tarnished. Is it any wonder that “MAI is jokingly referred to stand for Made as Instructed?”

At least when the AIREA and Society of Real state Appraisers were independent competitors they could keep each other honest…more or less.

Somehow I just now noticed your post. I agree that the administrators of this website are great! They go above and beyond to allow non-guru type of folks like me to be able to post! I may be color blind or something but some of those security photos were not visible to me! Oh well…they fixed all of that and were extremely helpful!

You and I both are the 30+ year veterans in this appraisal business. I admire the fact that you are working very hard to improve this profession. I have butted my head like a goat for decades trying to improve this profession also. I have given up the fight! I am close to retirement and this new group of appraisers seem determined to go to Expos, Pay dues to any silly organization, work for any AMC or National Appraisal Company. They seem determined to let someone else determine their fees instead of standing on their own two feet and making that decision. They cannot wait to pay for newsletters and assistance from coaches. They cannot seem to market their own services without assistance. Any AMC, RELO or National appraisal company, FHA, VA, whoever and whatever comes down the line with bullshirt crap…they just gobble it up like a hungry dog! I am sorry but I really do not feel sorry for them! They are much smarter than me!

Now as far as the cruise ship thingy! LOL…..I absolutely love to travel. The very best value for your money is to take a cruise. Of course it depends on when and where you go. Price 7 days on Carnival to the Cayman Islands, Jamaica and Cozumel as opposed to 7 days to Honolulu, HI. Now I will be leaving from TX and you from CA but compare any of those vacations to London or Germany, etc.

All of that really does not matter! The US Valuation Profession Fact Sheet (Dec- 2015) indicated that there are a total of 76,800 actual appraisers as of that date. This group of folks (YOU and ME) are supporting a number of regulatory folks drawing a salary in 50 states, Puerto Rico, Guam, Virgin Islands, Samoila Islands. Not only that we support all of these DAMN AMC employees, Employees of the National Appraisal Companies, we support those drawing salaries from each appraisal organization…then we pay for stupidity such as newsletter, EXpos….on and on and on! Are we a stupid group or what? You guys/gals play that game…I will go on vacation! LOL

My buddy emailed me back and this is what he had to say about Metro-West:

…hated working for metro west, 24hr tat, high volume, very low pay around 45% cut, amc deals so appraisal fees were low to begin with, crazy stips, etc. quit working for them & quit appraising shortly after.

yep, you can share this with whoever you want just keep me out of it…

I agree Ken,

FNMA and sweat shops have been taking & tolerating so many short cuts for so many years they really DO believe most people can do two a day start to finish.

Part of the problem is we have many appraisers bragging how they do 2, even 3 a day! Never heard one yet that can do two (URAR/UAD w/MC) a day start to finish in eight hours ALL BY THEMSELVES.

Pat, appraisers need to be VERY concerned. THESE (NAC) are the people that have managed to get the ear of the TAF. WorkingRE recently featured a proposal by NAC that on the surface looked as if it could benefit us all, except when you see the time envelope and work load requirement they propose for trainees. It fits multi state appraisal firms very nicely because they have slave labor for 90 days rather than until “the trainee is deemed competent or qualified to inspect on their own”. Its NOT an unreasonable proposal but it DOES seem geared for the sweat shop model.

I ‘d FIRE a trainee if after 30 days they could still not be trusted to properly inspect a house and or adequately augment their inspection with MANY digital photos. If I lead someone by the hand through 15 to 20 inspections they damn well better be able to properly measure a house and identify significant site features!

What bothers me about NAC & Five Star Group (Mortgage Brokers) is they are held out to be the voice of all appraisers working with lenders when they appear to represent primarily Assembly Mill Appraisal Shops and franchises that specialize in taking advantage of newcomers. Even at AGA we make no claims about representing ALL appraisers. We’d LIKE to, but simply put, we do not. No one else does either. Only appraisers that actually join organizations can be honestly said to be represented by those organizations.

Not even AI, as they so frequently claim.

Haha! No actually we limited it to 5 replies. An unlimited reply chain will be hard to follow as the threads become too skinny and hard to read!

Thank you Alex for bringing this one to our attention. Thank you AppraisersBlogs for providing court room for this trial. Thank you AppraisersBlogs commentators for a speedy prosecution.

what are they organized for?

who are the other members?

ask Phil Crawford.

while we are surreptitiously making legal threats, etc. can we say restraint of trade, price fixing, anti-competition, etc. ?

why else are their meetings, at least in the past, BEHIND closed doors?

Thank you! 🙂

Lessee now if I do my sums and cipherin’ right  that means we can reply to the reply of the reply to the reply to the original post, or did I forget  to divide by the square root of the hypotenuse of a right triangle x Pi r Unuh?

Greg, by “you” I assume you mean that generically. Counter claim is also noted. The appraiser referenced says you folks had a ten per week quota; you indicate in your post the quota is 20 a month. Just so we are all on the same page here.

It’s a BLOG Greg. It’s not a court of law. More specifically, it is an Appraisers Blog where appraisers come to discuss issues of concern to us all. YOUR comments are nothing more than hearsay as far as anyone else is concerned. You are essentially an anonymous typist to everyone else, CLAIMING to be who you say your are.

If Metro West is so insecure in its reputation that you have to start throwing words like slanderous around, false, etc., then perhaps they should actually START treating appraisers the way you say they do.

By the way, I used to do one appraisal a day… regularly, start to finish (before computers). LONG before all the added bs. Now each one is more like 8 to 12 hours…and remember in Los Angeles just the drive across town to the SF Valley from South of Metro area is 1 1/2 hours each way. So that’s 3 hours out of 8 just driving and NOT counting seeing all the comps.

That can take another 30 to 60 minutes ON AVERAGE. Of course there is the subject property inspection itself.

How long for the inspection? Used to be 30 to 45 minutes on average, now it’s longer. Measuring to ANSI;  Big house; two story 5,100 sf with lots of articulation, inspect interior, verify appliances are working, review the lease for the solar panels and determine if they are an positive, neutral or negative influence on value, take photos, double check for smoke detectors and monoxide alarms; Don’t forget to have the owner retract the pool cover so that can be inspected as well. Same with the spa cover. Also need to open the down hill gates to inspect the separately air conditioned “utility room” built under the at pad-grade level patio. Let’s see now. Oh yeah, let’s explain to the owner why we have to carry in a 12′ foot high step ladder across his custom carpet and marble flooring so we can climb into the attic.

What do YOU think Greg? another hour? 1 1/2? two? It DID take awhile longer to jot down all the solar data so an intelligent analysis can be made. Oops still need to take photos of the view amenities. (keeping track? Only 2 to 2 1/2 ours left)

Driving up to the house it became apparent neighborhood investigation beyond published data was needed. All the roads are cracked. Even those obviously just slurry coated. For those experienced in earthquake land and soil MOVEMENT areas road cracks like these are alarm bells. Visually checking neighborhood influences (like Porter Ranch gas well proximity, or soil slippage / immediate area land slides, and interviewing neighbors). Stopping to take pictures of the 2″, & 4″ to 6″ wide cracks all over the neighborhoods roads, climbing down the hillside to photograph cracks in raw soil and apparent slippage there too. OK, stopped to interview three residents about soil movement and purchase motivations as well as to ask when THEY became aware of the gas leaks (before, during or after escrow). Average 5 minutes each, total 15 minutes plus the agent I had to call in the field.

This comp drive actually WAS an hour and a half since I had to drive back down the canyon, around the flats to the next canyon over to the east and then back up again. For some strange reason the north uphill ‘connector road’ has a big canyon running right through the middle of it. That’s ok, I already calculated and hour for it above

So that leaves 2 to 2 1/2+- hours a day to research property (either for this assignment or the next days), communicate back with you folks to let you know more than 50% are complex…on the outside chance you folks even care. A half hour? an hour? Only 15 minutes? OK.

Property research is cyclical. I do it at the end of the day before the next days assignment so I know what issues to be on the lookout for, but it still counts as time spent on one assignment. Either way 1 to 2 hours isn’t unreasonable if I’m claiming to be thorough, is it? FULLY researching the ownership interest that exists so that I understand the nuances of how it gets from whatever that may be, to the fee interest required to be appraised? Actually comparing the deeds legal description with the plat map to identify discrepancies.

Now, I know SOME appraisals are no more than about 15 minutes research for comps, but NOT MOST of the time. Let’s say one to two hours to do a THOROUGH job, print out MLS for them and then try to contact agents; you DO still do that don’t you Greg? Miraculously let’s assume they all call back the same day. Hmmm. Only 1 3/4 hours left if I estimate nearer the low end on a couple items above.

I still have to research the market impact of any stated concessions; look up zoning maps and confirm the actual zoning and cross check with development standards to make sure what’s there really IS legal or legal non conforming…or otherwise. Some days we get lucky and it’s only 15 minutes; others it’s longer. Double check H&BU; and actually perform abstraction (or extraction if you prefer) on the comps to determine & document land value. Quick check of Craftsman or Building-cost.net or similar. (Who has TIME for M&S anymore; assuming you can afford it working for 1/2 pay?) So it takes an hour to an hour and a half. Boy am I glad it wasn’t a rental property!

Now as near as I can tell I am about out of time in my 8 hour day. It WOULD have been nice to be able to write the report up and turn it in, but that would take longer.

I GUESS I’ll just have to work OVERTIME in order to qualify for those other 27% of benefits that get me to 80% of gross fee, right Greg?

Since (according to ‘Josh’) Metro West reportedly hires only certified appraisers, I have to assume i’ts in anticipation that the scenario just outlined above may not be all that uncommon. Otherwise licensed appraisers could be doing it, right?

Now, I write reports up with about half boilerplate and the other half original text to each report. It takes me anywhere from 4 to five hours as a rule. You see, I actually ANALYZE when I say I do. I suppose I COULD hire clerks to do the drudge work, but then I’d be depending on NON certified appraisers to do MY complex work properly. Anyway, near as I can tell, I’d have to hit you up for about four hours overtime.

Greg, you can argue that this is not a typical assignment. I will counter that it is, since I AM a certified appraiser and I DO seek out work that is commensurate with my license level. Since Metro West only hires certified appraisers I assume you’d pay them proportionately to the complex assignments too. This one is a $1,500 SFR form report (to the appraiser). It’s based on three work days being allocated if needed. A clerk cannot do it.

You DID say appraisers are W2 Employees, right? You MAY want to rethink that ‘zero concern about LandSafe/BofA type lawsuits,’ Greg.

Because by your OWN statements, compared with MY own experience I’d agree with the original article that you either DO run a sweatshop (20 a month required for benefits), OR you are grossly underpaying your employees; claiming you only keep 20% of the fee while in fact you are taking 47% of it for anyone that does not meet quota!

Greg, DO keep posting though, OK? I am certain you are convincing almost all who read your posts of the righteousness of your views and the inherent integrity of your employer.

A true PR coup!

PS. If there are ANY Metro West “employees” out there thinking of joining a guild or appraisers union, please let me know. I don’t THINK they’d be foolish enough to violate U.S. Federal laws prohibiting retaliation for attempting to organize, (you OR me) but if they are, we DO get copies of lenders black lists whenever we have need of them, and we could all retire on the eventual settlement. Also, note the attorneys email link in other posts on this thread. They’d LOVE to hear from you!

Contact JanBellas@appraisersguild.org or myself at mike@mfford.com

To qualify as a full time employee with benefits Metro-West requires completion of 20 appraisals per month.

There has never been a quota requirement of 10 appraisals per week.

Mike, I sent him an email with a link to this post. Told him to share his experience with MW. I’ll tell him about Eduard M.

I don’t know how anyone can complete this many USPAP compliant appraisals in a week. 3 to 4 per week for me and I’m maxed out. 10? No way!

KenQ, You should have your friend contact Eduard Meleshinsky (eduard@bryanschwartzlaw.com). Its ok to say I suggested he contact them.

Eduard looked very hard into whether FEE appraisers would have a viable class action against lenders or AMCs nationally; and concluded it would probably be too complex to interest most firms because each states laws are different and Dodd Frank is a little ‘thin’.

Now what REALLY interested him was non fee EMPLOYEE appraisers being asked to perform to unrealistic quotas or necessarily working long hours in order to hit those quotas without also being paid overtime. Now  Greg Stephens said he has ZERO concerns in this regard, but that is exactly the type of thing that LandSafe/BofA were nailed for.

By the way, how DOES one consistently do USPAP compliant, good quality appraisal work with 24 hour turn times and ten a week? Not a shot at your friend. Its a comment on any business model that would require it.

Pssst Mike…. I increased the threaded comments from 3 to 5 🙂

Pssst! AppraisersBlogs Gurus, how come we can’t reply to a reply?

KenQ knows of an appraiser that the LandSafe lawsuit guys would LOVE to contact. Then again, I think they already have MW on their radar.

Greg, thank you for taking the time to respond. (there’s no reply to tab under your post, so I have no idea where this will land in relation to other posts)

The FACT that state regulations make you register as an AMC means …(wait for it) You (Metro West) ARE AN AMC, or its equivalent in the eyes of the state. BTW-the California legislature does not just routinely ‘clean up the language’ to change the intent of laws. Certain parties tried that with AB 624.

Manipulating state legislation for special exception will not win you any friends among appraisers.

“Secondly, we are expanding our commercial staff, including into Virginia. To date we have not completed a commercial appraisal in Virginia and the statement regarding Metro-West and commercial fees remains false and slanderous.”

Greg, You MAY just want to recheck your Webster’s for the definition of “slanderous” before bandying it about.

Its possible you meant LIBELOUS, and even there you’d better check local jurisdictional laws before accusing someone ELSE of it or you could find yourself being accused of libeling someone.

Im confused by this:

.

Are you, or Metro West in any way affiliated with Joan Trice’s Collateral Risk Network or Allterra Group where you are advertised as an instructor? Is THAT what you mean by “advocating for appraisers”?

Most appraisers familiar with CRN, and REVAA and similar AMC advocacy groups would not really consider them to be appraiser advocates; but you can claim to be whatever it is you want to I guess.

If the total compensation package for EACH appraiser is about 80%, then I’d be impressed. 20% overhead is pretty low. On the other hand if you are including “benefits” that don’t apply across the board to ALL appraisers, then that too would be disingenuous, wouldn’t it?

As for you having zero concerns about a LandSafe/BofA style lawsuit, I guess you would know best having been an executive at LandSafe/BofA before the recent settlement. Presumably you helped design Metro Wests system to avoid repetition of similar pitfalls.

If Metro West is dedicated to treating it's employees so well that they have no need of being unionized, then I applaud that. If more businesses followed similar models, then I would happily be out of a 'volunteer second job'.

Having said that though, I have my doubts of the veracity of your claims.

For instance:

I don't know if that jpg will post properly or not but the link above includes a post attributed to your own Josh McKernan VP of Expansion operations in response to someone that was offended by only being offered a 53% split.

Its a pretty rude response Greg. Frankly it just gratuitously nasty and insulting to the appraiser it was addressed to.

Is THIS the business model that you feel will preclude people from even wanting to unionize?

FaceBook commenters don't seem very impressed by the business model Greg. I think you folks have much bigger PR issues to deal with than to try to intimidate individual appraisers like "Alex" or web site hosts over independent posts.

A reputation dependent upon suing people or trying to shut them up when they exercise their right to free speech isn't much of a business model. Don't take my word for it though Greg. Go visit the site linked above. You'll see several people that were approached to 'find people' seem to be having second thoughts.

Last item: When you advertise for commercial appraisal work in Virginia, will you also be disclosing that up until now (03/06/16) anyway that you have ZERO corporate appraiser competency there? Seems like something clients might be interested in.

Good luck in your personal endeavors Greg. You'll forgive me, and others though if we continue to hold the belief that MW is nothing more than an AMC disguised to look like something else.

PS IF you would like some (possibly) free legal advice about your business model, you may want to contact Eduard Meleshinsky (eduard@bryanschwartzlaw.com). While your employees may not be interested in unionizing, ANY that feel they 've been pressured into working overtime 'a la the LandSafe appraiser employee business model' might be interested in contacting him. He's an associate of the guys than cleaned BofA and Landsafe's clock for the $36 million.

I hear they are looking for similar cases.

Thanks Mike!

An appraiser I know who happens to be an ex Metro-West appraiser told me that he had to complete at least 10 appraisals per week, with 24hr TAT for a measly 50% cut of the NET appraisal fee collected!

He hated working for them. Too much stress for a low paying job. He didn’t last long… I think less than a year. And he didn’t get health insurance or the other benefits they mentioned. I don’t know the whole story but I know he hated MW.

Is this really a company an appraiser would want to work for? Josh McKernan is still the Assistant VP of Expansion operations, even though Don Rousseau (CEO MW) agreed that McKerman response to an appraiser recruiter was unprofessional (letter below).

Was McKernan promoted after insulting the appraiser? Probably!

Greg Stephens admits that they are expanding into VA…”we are expanding our commercial staff, including into Virginia”… which is no different than what Alex posted. He never said MW completed commercial appraisals in VA. He simply stated that Metro-West is “ENTERING the Virginia Commercial world”…in which Stephens took offense.

Mike,

There are three states whose AMC statute/regulation language include employee appraisers into their definition of an AMC. For that reason Metro-West had to register in those states. That does not alter the fact we remain a W-2 employee appraisal firm and those three states are in the process of revising their statutute/regulation language to exclude staff employee appraisal firms. At that point we will no longer have to register as an AMC in order to do business in that state.

We do not outsource appraisal assignments to any anyone who is a non-staff employee, and we decline all assignments outside our staff coverage area or instances where we cannot meet the required turn times. Hardly an AMC business model.

Secondly, we are expanding our commercial staff, including into Virginia. To date we have not completed a commercial appraisal in Virginia and the statement regarding Metro-West and commercial fees remains false and slanderous.

Also – folks, I am an appraiser. Have been for over 38 years.

I am also an appraiser advocate, having owned and managed a regional appraisal firm in Northern California for over twenty years and now travel around the country advocating on behalf of appraisers.

The full employee comp package for our staff employees equates to nearly 80% of the appraisal fee. We are not a sweat shop and have absolutely zero concerns of being susceptible to a lawsuit similar to LandSafe/Bank of America.

IBM was never unionized because Tom Watson made sure their employees were taken care of and did not require the protection of a labor union. Metro-West is dedicated to the same principle.