Ego?
Hardly. At least not as far as this thread goes.

36+ years full time experience and knowledge of the subject under discussion points to being informed rather than simply being egotistical.

We have as a profession been demeaned by uninformed bigots accusing US of racism. This isn’t an academic discussion among respected peers. Many of us refuse to be anyone’s fall guy or whipping boy any longer.
It is a direct accusation to the race baiting liars to either put up or shut up. Show CREDIBLE studies or specific proof or STOP LYING.

Citing studies by (at best) biased authors promoting their own highly volatile agenda by disparaging the reputations and integrity if an entire profession doesn’t make the Grand Deception promoted by them any less of a scurrilous lie.

Many studies have been done by economists, sociologists, and other phD fellows on this matter.

Yet, while this comment thread may not want to read the other peer reviewed research, nor admit that there is a factual and historic racial disparity that has perpetuated over time because it would require some time being introspective and considering ones own biases, the sheer obstinate cognitive dissonance exhibited gives one pause.

Why on earth would or should anyone concede a false premise, that ‘requires being worked on’?

Solutions to real problems don’t come from false admissions. If the problem cannot be honestly described in the first place then whatever is perceived to be the problem cannot be remedied.

Danielo, you are not being objective.

You invite us to focus on the history of black or brown racism while you choose to ignore the equally reprehensible ethnic or national origin biases directed at Asians, Poles, Italians, Germans, Slavs, Irish, and others in the same historical time frames.

Any honest analysis starts with the 1965 Civil Rights Act. Not before. Residual prejudice existed up through the early 1970s on an isolated basis. It was not prevalent.

The only redlining that takes place in today is in insurance premiums; and loan underwriting where demographic make up of residents by census tract or zip code is considered.

Both are federal constructs.

Wow!

‘falsified low appraisal?’ Where? Informed folks from the area have already refuted that it is low. BTW-The recent YouTube bit about a $65,000 “low” appraisal in Canada was a moronic hit piece by producers that were either ignorant or staging pseudo evidence of how racist you folks in Canada are…or perhaps they are both.

I refer to the ABC Canadian station that ran the fatally flawed piece on the African-Canadian; Asian-Canadian and Caucasian-Canadian.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/amp/article/news/local/homeowner-claims-appraisal-value-increased-after-removing-blackness-from-home/77-1a3c417d-3ac9-49a6-b05a-11f16b153412

I am a community development attorney in Miami-Dade County, Florida.

Looks complicated… Zillow local price map.

Interesting findings by Mary Cummings!

Can any FL appraiser familiar with Ortega Forest area let us know if properties have increased by more than 50% in value in 3 years as of June 2020 which is apparently when the first appraisal was done? If she purchased her home in 7/17 for $295k and 3 years later it’s now worth $465k per the second appraisal, that’s a 56% increase in value.

We all know the second appraiser will be blamed for overvaluing her property when the next real estate crash happens and she’s underwater on her home. Will NYT do a follow up article? It’s rhetorical question.

Rob Engle – thanks for these details.

They could easily become the poster for how mortgage control fraud works.

If we had access to FNMA CU systems data, there would be far fewer questions, much less room for speculation, and more reliable data for appraisers to start their analysis upon similar peer model validated value and adjustment benchmarks. Many benefits of new technologies have been purposefully withheld from the appraiser community.

Separation from loan production causes more problems than it solves. How many man hours have been spent on this individual value opinion disagreement? To the point where it is a national news story, complaints have been filed, and industry think tanks had to respond. When if the appraisers and mortgage bankers could have simply spoke on the phone it could have been sorted out within a single day. The problem is not racism. The problem is excessive regulation which ties the appraisers hands. Excessive performance pressure which compels less time invested and more outsourcing. Excessive rules which prohibit the appraiser from clearly explaining on site to the individuals involved, how and why the value is what it is.

Theoretically the appraiser is supposed to show up, walk through the home, take photos and measure, never talk about the appraisal fee, never talk about the homes value, never talk about the market conditions, refuse to answer homeowners questions, and then refuse to answer mortgage banker calls if they reach out. We’re supposed to only communicate through inadequate rudimentary tech portals with poorly qualified appraisal distribution staff (people whom do not carry individual licenses), and respond to automatic review their clever computers push back. When you automate the entire valuation process for the benefit of tech companies and monied institutions, when you remove the human factor and the ability to engage in open ended unrestricted speech with everyone involved, don’t be surprised when people feel they are not treated fairly.

A realtor in the Jacksonville area who lives a few neighborhoods away from the Jacksonville couple pulled up comparable sales. The realtor commented that the couple live in Ortega Forest neighborhood, which is very nice but overall has lower values than the adjacent Ortega neighborhood – the two are separated by train tracks and a busy street. If you pull comps only from Ortega Forest the $330k appraisal would be justified. Homes that sell above $450k are either on the other side of the tracks or much higher square footage than this couple’s home. Not knowing the current condition of this home, it’s possible they did some renovations since purchasing it for $295k back in 2017, but the realtor suspects they would gain that much value. He concludes that the original low appraisal was probably the accurate one.

“The original appraisal came in at the range given by four different robot appraisals for the property. The final appraisal came in higher. See the four main robot estimates below. The robot appraisals were based on the false larger size so they are even higher than they should be. Robots are software programs. They definitely do not consider the race or anything about the owner. They don’t see the property. They know nothing about the interior.

It’s not a 4 bed, 4 bath home legally. It’s 3 bed, 2.5 baths. That makes a big difference. The size in the MLS is larger than legal. Some estimates are based on the false larger size. You can’t include unpermitted additions with most lenders because building and safety can force them to remove unpermitted additions. You have to choose comps based on legal size, bed/bath count of subject only.

It has a funky addition which doesn’t appear to be permitted. It’s on a double corner lot closer to the main highway and commercial area. These can be negatives.

It was not a bank loan but a credit union loan and a credit line. There are different requirements for credit union loans than bank loans. Based on my experience credit unions aren’t as picky. The couple got a 15 yr loan which is generally for riskier borrowers and what appears to be another line of credit on the property. They took cash out. Banks need to see a higher loan to value to do a refinance and get cash out. Sounds like they didn’t get the loan first time around which could be based on credit, income, length of time at current job… I have no information to verify this though I do have their loan documents and loan agreement.

The area is not “predominantly white.” If we go by % only then yes, whites are predominant at over half or 51% in this area. Whites are 51%, blacks 30%, Asians, Hispanics, mixed make up the rest. See chart below. In my area “predominant” is considered 85% or more. Also, the wife is black and husband is white. Did the appraiser only discriminate against the wife?

Below is information about the property. It’s all public information.

They just refinanced July 18, 2020. They bought the 3 bed, 3 bath, 2,512 sf home built 1951 on a 21,586 sf lot 4132 Sherwood, Jacksonville, Florida for $295,000 July 19, 2017. There is what appears to be a $60,000 second. It’s assessed at $308,000. Lot: 5 Block: 3 Map Ref: PM6505 Abbreviated Description: Assessor 100746-0000 Legal LOT:5 BLK:3 UNIT:1 SUBD:ORTEGA FOREST UNIT 01 SEC/TWN/RNG/MER:SEC 09 TWN 03S RNG 26E 19-22 09-3S-26E ORTEGA FOREST UNIT 1 LOT 5 BLK 3 MAP REF:PM6505. They got a $292,000 first 15 years from a credit union Coastline FCU, not a bank. They publicly listed their names, Abena Sanford Horton and Richard Alex Horton, and address. I’d still like to see the appraisals. If a local appraiser can run some comps, that’d be great. I’m in California and not Florida…” See More

Poor journalistic practice! New York Times is a disgrace. It’s not a newspaper anymore. If NYT wants to stop hearing the words “fake news”, it needs to stop publishing it.

I canceled my NYT subscription after reading Kamin’s article. it was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me.

That has been missing from every study to date. For various self serving reasons all political parties hold certain opposing views on racism.

Personally, I dont think any amount of sensitivity courses will eliminate accusations of racism. IF there is racism in valuation (highly doubtful, and never proven) it would be at such a personal and deliberate level as to preclude it being ‘correctable’.

Contrary to today’s reverse racists’ claims, racism has not been systematic for more than fifty years.

Does it still exist? Sure. On the finance or loan decision side. In consumer finance and real property finance. By dishonest, greedy individuals that are already violating existing laws. The so called “Predatory Lenders”.

Deal with that before besmirching and further regulating an innocent profession.

My email to Debra Kamin

Maureen – thanks for all you do for our profession! Now – if they would only listen! You and the ICAP group are one of the very few things I miss about Illinois.