I keep seeing Open Door losses when I’m looking at property records. If we’re able to sell, I’m calling OpenDoor for an over market value based strictly on avm’s and not appraisers. What a deal.

However, now that they’re partnering with zillow, guess who’s going to have a new motivation to provide artificially lower, rather than artificially higher housing prices… Playing the residential housing like stock markets. Drive this down, buy. Drive that up, sell. Repeat. American consumers will have no control while lenders automated ‘modernized’ programs will just steer everyone into something which benefits these partner corporations. Individual representation and actual free markets is being scooted out in favor of central control and central planners. You know, for the benefit of consumer convenience and such so they don’t get sacked with appraisal fees.

Norton AFB was its own census tract number. The only private citizens were dogs and cats.
Things change and large agencies don’t keep up.
Appraisers use telephone numbers of connections for stability in recreational neighborhoods. We all should read the whole report.

How do we do it know with all the telephone computers??

Jack was refinancing his home with the VA, I made an appointment, and arrived midday. jacks house was tenant occupied and had a huge crop overgrowing the back door.
I asked a friend with the lender a very conservative S&L to harvest before I took Photos.

Another Jack was refinancing his personal home, I made an appointment and arrived meeting jack in the driveway. Nice home in an area of big lots this one had an orchard and a swimming pool. The house and pool were separated from the orchard by a 6′ high fence. Jack had warned me that his DOG in the orchard area had RABIES and was dangerous. As I was inspecting this back yard and pool area, I stepped up on a chair to see the roof and inadvertently the orchard.
The dog obviously named Mary-jane was bright green and well kept, trimmed and fertilized and six foot tall.
I began giggling so much I almost fell of the chair.
I reported Maryjane in the 1004 format and the lender didn’t seem too care. The Owner was pissed.
We ain’t the Cops.

In response to Jen;

Yeah, when it turns out you are possibly the first and only person to have done their job and reported a property accurately, over a period likely as long as you’ve been alive.

If lenders adopt an avm methodology as their preferred method, they’ll also need to take up additional duties, like hiring full time people to constantly track down assessment records to ask for their correction, verification. Yet, how would that happen without the appraiser to properly inform them and verify a discrepancy in the first place? And why haven’t lenders been pro active in assisting buyers and borrowers from getting their assessment records corrected over the past 50 or so years when appraisers clearly informed there was data variance, and lenders even grilled us for revisions and clarifications? When some low level underwriter makes a big deal about data verification or permitted improvement or whatever, but mysteriously nobody else cares that glaring omission is still present on the real properties permanent assessment record. Sort of goes right along with the ANSI mandate, purposeful obscurification of existing data just buys the lender that much more wiggle room to possibly manipulate or mis interpret data to make those loans happen. Some agent told me today, as we were talking about the cost of point buy downs and speculating how many points do these $25k concessions I’m seeing really buy down, he was saying they’re seeing point buy downs that expire after so many years. So basically, adjustable rate loans are back. I’m also getting near daily non qm solicitations; No job, stated income only, foreign national, up to 100% ltv cash outs, need maximum rental credit applied towards qualification, up to two million cash out; No Problem!

The government cares about your financial security. And other hilarious jokes you can tell yourself.

The other day I pulled a sale within the local MLS with 3,100 sq ft. Turned out to have 2,100 sq ft above and 1,000 partially finished basement.

The mls said fully finished but I could see the photos. The mls also said there was a storage building, garage, and shop. There was only a little outbuilding. (I do understand why this is done but comments explaining what is actually there would be helpful)

The tax records had nothing at all on the basement. Nothing. Only the above grade. Also had bath count wrong. I searched everywhere online and never before has the basement been mentioned in the dwelling’s 60+ years.

This is nothing new and more common than not in my area. This is why it takes me so long to write a report.

When we import information from the local MLS and tax records, if we did not investigate and verify, our reports would be trash.

I’m wondering if an AVM will be able to sort it all out.

Census tract!!!!!! How racist can you get????

I have NEVER searched for data by census tract. The GSEs require us to report them!

They can still blame appraisers as they get bailed out.

“You know why zillow gets more clicks than the next site; Higher numbers!”

If lenders pick the AVM to use which do you think they will choose if they are not a hard money lender…the more credible…or the one with higher numbers.

I agree that I’m happy they stink from a purely selfish standpoint. I hate that they stink since they are going to be relied upon for lending decisions and the public gets hosed by it. Many times I’ll see ‘comps’ ranging from $400k-500k and the Zestimate is $750k or something way outside the range.

So AVMs in lieu of an appraisal will have a better chance of meeting the lender LTV requirements when in need of significant repair.

FNMA & FHLMC have been in receivership for 15 years (2008) and have 5 more years left before it ends.

We researched at the assessors and recorder’s office, had in-house maps and then scheduled the inspection. once in a while the property was un-improved as a vacant lot or had a converted chicken coop, revealing that the government was not the only one fooled. Lenders are being fooled to day sixty years later and my bosses had just refused to appraise an FHA for $20.00.
We tried to measure 10 a day interview agent and write them up within the week.

Related to a local single source public records file search (say via MLS), the public and by default AVM’s don’t know the following.

PUD/Project name, HOA fees, view, zoning classification / description / compliance /, public/private utilities (included or not included in HOA fees), solar, attached or detached design, number of stories, floor location, common area features, if there is heat, if there is AC, if there is a fireplace, decks, patios, porch, balcony, other parking, basements, ADU’s, guest house, etc., etc., etc.

PROPERTY CHARACTERISTICS: BUILDING
Type Single Family Residential Condition Units
Effective Year Built 1947 Stories
BRs
3
Baths 2 F H Rooms
Total Sq. Ft.
2,354
Building Square Feet (Living Space) Building Square Feet (Other)
– CONSTRUCTION
Quality Roof Framing
Shape Roof Cover Deck
Partitions Cabinet Millwork
Common Wall Floor Finish
Foundation Interior Finish
Floor System Air Conditioning
Exterior Wall Heat Type
Structural Framing Bathroom Tile
Fireplace Plumbing Fixtures
– OTHER
Occupancy Building Data Source
Opener
PROPERTY CHARACTERISTICS: EXTRA FEATURES
Feature Size or Description Year Built Condition
Garage 2 CAR
Pool
Opener
PROPERTY CHARACTERISTICS: LOT
Land Use Single Family Residential Lot Dimensions
Block/Lot /1094 Lot Square Feet 18,300
Latitude/Longitude 32.763279°/-117.091610° Acreage 0.42

Limited garbage in, equals less reliable garbage out.

Seek the truth.

Excellent insight Mary, thank you. Mike Ford when he used to post here more often would tell us stories about how CA age of home recognition and subsequent assessors reporting worked, alongside various grandfathered allowances and such. He said in some areas they’ll leave a single wall standing, demolish the rest, build grand new structures, and still benefit from having an official assessment record or a 50 year old home, something like that.

You’ve put in so much work towards protecting the rest of us from these false accusations and impropriety floating around. Thank you so much for your dedicated efforts. Do you think there is any merit to the idea that some public interest clause could create compelling reason to unseal discovery information pertaining to the appraisers are racist accusations, for public review? These events really are effecting this entire countries regulatory structures and attitudes towards the validity of the appraisal profession, which in turn may effect every single citizen in this country in terms of their access and ability to engage the GSE’s for mortgage lending. The pursuit of the American Dream of home ownership, as the pundits often so hollowly proclaim, in between cutting back room deals with every special interest group seeking further monetization. Toss up a task force to distract the masses.

It would just seem to make more sense that for publicized cased pertaining to accusations of systemic industry wide racism which has entire population segments in a stir, stories that have headlined around the world literally, we’d get at least one solid proof point either way, eventually. It remains quite the mystery, how this racist epidemic only affects appraisers and nobody else in the sale or mortgage lending arena. The lack of such verifiable evidence seems to do more to validate the hypotheses that our own representative appraisal groups are working against us, and against the best interests of the American people at large, at the behest of predatory lending interests or some other non profit they appear to have partnered up with. Or perhaps to gain social points jumping on the virtue signaling bandwagon. Or if you feel there is a more rational conclusion, please detail. I will never be able to personally reconcile the notion that the head of our premier organization which calls the shots, The Appraisal Foundation, is not even a qualified appraiser, unrestrained by the same ethical guidelines like the rest of us. What are we missing here?

https://www.publicjustice.net/comes-sealing-court-records-presumption-public-access-requires-just-say-no/
I’m going to play ameture hour pretend legally competent here; Are the records sealed due to umbrella arrangements, and too late to dispute the confidentiality? Or perhaps someone could simply write the judge a compelling public interest reason. Like perhaps, a series of accusations of systemic appraiser racism which made headlines around the world and are currently being used to retool the entire lending industry, which will in turn deny hundreds of millions of americans the important due process which is the independent valuation opinion from a qualified licensed human appraiser, an essential check and balance in the GSE lending systems which the public has a compelling interest regarding? These appraisers are racists accusations and subsequent cases are without a doubt; cases of the public interest, clearly already in the public sphere of awareness and common conversation. Can this group or other groups like them be called in to assist? Just brainstorming. I’d better get back to work, thanks.

https://www.appraisalfoundation.org/imis/TAF/About_Us/TAF/About_Us.aspx

Zillow has a broad array of helpful tools. They are also somewhat of an open source concept, relying on community feedback and community data assistance. This results in easy avenues for people to push redundant duplicate examples, double list their rentals in geotagged locations which are not really where the property lies, and even push fictitious sales examples which appear in no other online location except zillow. I had a savvy migrant dude try to use an ROV process with the lender to reconsider value based on a zillow sales example which magically appeared online the day after my appraisal was likely sent to him. I’ve used the pro tools feedback form there about half the time I dip into zillow for easy rental research, because I’m tired of reviewing the same property twice with different geo tags and subtle listing differences so some slimbag slumlord can double post his listings to get more online exposure, testing near duplicate listings to see if people may bite the hook that costs more monthly rent. There is associated straight fiction listings too in order to pump up the percieved going rate. Zillows over head bubble views and multi color coded tools are nifty to use but I’ll prefer rent dot com or those type of sites first if I have adequate access and data. You know Zillow is just scraping a lot of their data to form their apparently more robust data systems right? And they don’t always copy it correctly. Zillow’s primary shortcoming is their apparent willingness to post combined gla and compare based on combined total gla, even though there is a clear price and value difference for agla vs total gla which includes true fully below ground basements or other ancillary structure. These systems can’t even begin to deal with water shares, changing zoning, code violations, eminent domain, external obsolescence, or valid effective age estimates. You know why zillow gets more clicks than the next site; Higher numbers!

I’ve also had multiple conversations with knowledgeable realty agents about their own internal avm utility tools, of which there is an ever expanding choice set. (Because every wanna be with coding experience can make one, it’s not that difficult to scrape readily available assessors data feeds and program simple additional analysis and clever presentation peramiters in.) The sales agents provide even greater insight; Many of the avm’s are more focused on constant contact and customer retention than actual valid market numbers. Some agents have argued for their entire firm to drop some of the realty specific avm’s which tout all this high reliability, because as they stated; They grew weary of having to explain to customers why their own internal systems figures were misleading and not entirely accurate. Agents will say things like it was a tough call because we were taking in more leads, but had less over all customer retention. There are a hundred ancillary functions of an amc, all of which are considered a more important priority for the software developers in order to capture a customer and subscriber base in the first place, all of which are considered more important than the validity of the ‘value conclusion’ the avm presents. The name avm has become a misnomer in this regard. Automatic Valuation Model. But it’s really only a valuation estimate utility which primarily is more of a marketing tool than a reliable algorithm capable of adjusting and adapting to the real world moving target which is residential housing. Even Zillow folded to this approach, which is why the site is full of agent references and thousands of agents nationwide pay for zillow leads.

The geniuses at the TAF, PAVE task force, and amc industry, all working to form an ‘AVM certification program’ which will be supposedly equivalent to a human appraiser are going to be delineating non qualified stale data for the rest of their lives and will never ever actually get it right. Sometimes I wish that Jeremy Bagott would have never busted out on the scene with so much rich disclosure behind the curtain. To finally grasp all these years later why the heads of the appraisal industry do not actually care to represent the entire nation of appraisers whom are under them, because they’re not restrained by licensing and are in the pockets of big lender and special interest industries surrounding lenders, it’s pretty disappointing. Even more so that now the disclosure is clear, nobody actually does anything about it. What are all the appraisal groups actually doing other than leeching some teet in a dark corner? Where are the applied checks and balances with this much government spending abuse? I have only met a handful of appraisers whom appear to actually care about the core principals of ethic and consumer protection. The rest of them appear to be just in it for the easy ride and egotism of the position. Is it too early in the day to have a twister?

https://twitter.com/jbagott

I think you missed the Jim Jones/Jamestown reference!

Chuck Minzenberger not KoolAid, toxic pond sludge.