While I have your attention…please visit link and let me have your feedback (on topic-not necessarily my lack of skill as a webmaster)

http://mfford.com/html/c___r_fees.htm

I have to double check the AGA site to see if that one posted. Thanks!

Can you see retirement in my future? I am so ready!

Hey Mike,
We are talking the “real” deal! I have tried to send you a personal email…I hope it comes thru. You should buy me a beer and let’s talk! LOL

Wayne thank you for the kind thoughts.

I guess the best answer to your last question about the cruise, is that I can no longer afford such luxuries. Taking myself; the other half and our 9 year old daughter to a movie is closer to $60, and change is rare.

Cruise? As in a VACATION? My last ‘vacation’ was a business trip to Pennsylvania in February. High point of the  trip? George Washington and I apparently used the same “rest” room along the Delaware. The enclosed one wasn’t built when he was there; and was locked when I was. I’m fairly certain we found the same tree though.

Anyway, I just finished the draft proposal for higher fees and my trusty squire Sancho & I have more windmills to tilt with.

Bon Voyage to you and yours though! (real lobster or langostino?)

It seems to me that there is no point in trying to explain to some of our fellow appraisers what is wrong with this picture. It is just not worth the effort. They are going to either starve out of the business or catch on. Sink or swim, seems to be the way it works. Those of us that do not give a damn about C&R, AMC’s, what FHA wants, etc. seem to be happier than most.

I do appreciate your efforts to promote the union, promote the appraisal profession but my opinion is that your wasting some of your valuable time. Why not just let these “highly trained” professionals do their own thing (they will anyway) and come join us old folks on a cruise? We have a 7 day cruise booked from Galveston leaving weekend after Thanksgiving and another in February leaving from New Orleans. Any appraisers are most welcome. We can eat steak, lobster and discuss this pitiful profession! (LOL) I wish everyone the best!

Wayne, I stand corrected.

I also agree philosophically that no one should be able to set my fee other than myself. When I was first trained, my old mentor was always about 10% higher than his competition. His explanation to me was that it was always less crowed in the deeper end of  the pool than the hallow end. we always preferred the more complex assignments. I try to follow that premise to this day.

Having said that, you and I both know that appraisers do NOT set their own fees anymore. Not really. We still retain the right to refuse work, but that’s not the same as ‘setting our  own fees’. AMC influence has spilled over to non AMC work (in my state anyway).

With the new TURD; a loan broker will be citing our fees up front. This ‘broker’ may or may not even be licensed. While required to be, past practice was that the majority of loan “officers” merely worked for a licensed broker. I have no reason to believe that practice has stopped. A person like this has no clue as to why a fee commensurate with the complexity of the assignment is required. Yet within three days of the initial interview people like this will be quoting appraisal fees for the TRID which may or may not be able to be changed.

I still want to swim in the deep end of the pool, but in order to do that the ‘shallow’ end needs to be repaired. Banks want to pay a one size fits all fee NATIONALLY for complex and non complex appraisals. Currently that national fee is around $495 to $499 that they pay the AMCs for ‘all appraisal related costs’.

ALL I am saying is that IF a perceived minimum national fee is allowed to exist at all, it is one that WE as appraisers should develop. It wont prevent any from charging more, but it could set a national minimum definition for what is deemed “reasonable”.

I finished a draft proposal yesterday that is being reviewed. Once that’s done I’ll post it for appraisers input and suggestions. Its not perfect but it is a damn sight better than what currently exists in all states!

Mike,

Actually, I did read the article. I just have never agreed that anyone should be able to set the fees for an independent businessman. The part of my post that I hope has some relevance is that each of us have the absolute RIGHT to accept or decline any appraisal fee.

If C&R for a SFR appraisal were set for all 50 states at a fee of $100. each would it be a position of ignorance when I refused to accept said fee? Oh well, I wish everyone the best!

CA Absolutely! In my own defense when I went there in 1992 the position was specifically created for me to provide ‘enhanced quality control’ to a bunch of trainees. Back then I also taught a CA approved CE USPAP course (before the State and Fed rules changed). You are right to scoff at anyone doing a three minute “review”. Then again most experienced appraisers can pick out a LOT of errors in the first minute or two. NONE of these usually required more than saying HEY George! Fix This! We KNEW a lot was passing through. The client requirement (and frankly even USPAP back then) was not as burdensome as it is now. No excuses. It WAS an appraisal mill, and for me it was a great learning experience about how a particular AMC worked; and so called high efficiency offices!

You may have seen my comments elsewhere where I ‘question’ how good all the current ‘time savers’ are. My cynicism arises from my experiences  noted above. IF you have ever read my comments you will find I LEARNED well from that experience and am NOT an advocate of assembly line appraisals. SOME efficiencies can be gleaned, but there is the constant inherent risk of unacceptable short cuts too. My personal belief is that ‘few’ can do more than three (3) full SFR / URAR properly completed appraisals and reports in a week and do them right “start to finish”-100% by themselves. (Includes calls & interviews to involved parties; looking at zoning maps, and doing real H&BU analysis, and meaningful 1004MC analysis-not just filling out the form). MY personal belief is that the small full service appraisal shop is the best learning and training model. One experienced senior owner operator; one or two AGs; an AR or licensee and a trainee. Variations too. The downside is that even before HVCC, income work load irregularity was always a concern. I always allowed a LITTLE outside work by appraisers as long as OUR work was a priority; and they didn’t poach my clients. Never had a real problem with that.

If you can blame LSI for their low fees then I can blame the appraisal mill companies, like you describe, to a stronger degree. Today’s national appraisal mill companies are to blame for accepting bulk assignments for ridiculous fees and burning thru appraisers like sweat shop workers. Are you an advocate for competency or for a continued “churn and burn” approach?  Appraisal Mills – Absolutely Criminal!

FYI, I also received personal email from a Florida appraiser who declined to be identified. He said anyone making the claim my friend made is either a liar or is only worth that much. Said he’s worked for them (LSI) since ’86 and gets close to the normal fees he charges his non AMC customers. He said he gives them a “small discount.”

No specifics about how much he charges his non AMC clients OR LSI of course.

Folks, I’m not here to pick fights, or engage in them with individual appraisers. I AM generically on the side of all appraisers tired of crappy working conditions and fees. Like all of us here, I discuss what I believe to be true among my peers. If shown to be wrong, I correct it. So far re LSI, no correction is warranted. I KNOW from past personal experience how poorly LSI pays appraisers. The only issue is whether they have continued that terrible fee history into the post Dodd-Frank world.

The invitation still stands. ANY appraisers out there that are either receiving low fees; required to conform to unreasonable turn times, told they must not include invoices, or disclose fees actually received please let us (AGA) know. Same applies if pressures or prohibited threats are used to get you to change values or violate other aspects of USPAP.

IF you would be interested in participating in a class action with no fees to yourself, except attorneys split if/when we win please let us know. IF and only IF enough individual appraisers indicate a willingness to participate and that have at least one instance of being paid less than C&R fees (or other abuse), we’ll proceed based on the proof we can present in accordance with the advice of any of the attorneys involved.

You do NOT have to be an AGA member to participate in this; though we will obviously ask if you are interested in Guild membership at some point. At NO POINT is membership anticipated as a requirement to participate in the class action (unless some attorney tells us that is required-which does not seem probable at this stage). Each states laws are different. Federal issues may also have their own special requirements.

Until you specifically authorize any attorneys to act on your behalf, your name will only be disclosed outside AGA, & possibly OPEIU to those same attorneys so that they can contact you to dot the legal ‘i’s, and cross the ‘t’s. I’ll play lightening rod and take the heat for trying to organize this. I’m assuming my conventional lender work will dry up shortly. A note of caution to any lenders contemplating that. I DO get access to the blacklists. Think it through.

Unless and until then all I anticipate being needed is; Your name; email address, state, a phone number, AMC Name; Lender name and fee offered (orother abuse) so we know how many people are potentially involved. I honestly do not know what the numerical critical mass is.

The B of A / Landsafe case they involved 365 claimants in the class. The attorney I spoke with said obviously the more involved, the higher the final fees. Don’t sign on looking for a financial windfall. CAs rarely make anyone rich (beyond the law firms that advance all the costs), but they ARE helpful in ending abusive conditions. Isn’t that the end goal anyway?

OK, we have ALL seen enough complaining… heard enough stories of abuse…talked about boycotts…formed coalitions…and even had a few small but important legislative victories, but now, respectfully, it is time to get off the proverbial pot and do something meaningful.

“Why doesn’t ‘someone’ DO something….? Well, now that we ARE seriously trying to. Who is going to tentatively commit to participating? Do we get 100 people? 1,000? or 80,000?

Email either janbellas@appraisersguild.org or myself at mike@mfford.com . IF interested in AGA membership let us know and we’ll get back to you right away. If not, we will still get back to you as soon as attorneys let us know what the next step is. Thank you all, and please wish us luck!

Remember the old Ford slogan: Quality Is Job 1?

Try using that type of slogan with regard to the appraisal business and lenders will laugh you out of the room.