LMAO too

My new basis for all quotes:

http://mfford.com/html/c___r_fees.htm  PS-sorry about spacing above.

“[sent by MFord 9/28/15 n response to below]

Mark,

My previous remarks still stand. Ask each of these “so sure of themselves advocates” whether they wish me to send copies of your sales pitch; comments attributed to them, and my responses to the Texas Appraiser Licensing and Certification Board (TALCB) so they can explain their techniques to them; and / or to The Appraisal Foundation so they are aware of the kinds of marketing and representations that are ostensibly being made by their sponsors.

I listened to the ZAIO hustle of a few years ago; see or hear new software hucksters promoting magical fairy dust driven software that if believed all but eliminates the need for me on a near daily basis, and stopped believing in unicorns And magic lamps long ago.

I’m not interested Mark, but I’ll pass your kind offers on to the appraisal world that I can, on your behalf.

Mike Ford

“From: Mark Sammis msammis@accurityvaluation.com
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 10:17 AM
To: Mike Ford; pvidi@atglenderlink.com
Subject: Mike, meet the experts. Mark.

Mike,

If you would like to learn our Houston office’s system please call Mark Verrett: Accurity Acorn Appraisals   832-326-9149   

Here is what our Chief Appraiser, Tom Munizzo said about Mark’s system: (Tom is a former NAIFA President and a current member on the Appraisal Foundation Board of Trustees. He just wrote the course on NEW FHA Requirements for NAIFA)

I just spoke with Tom, and I quote:

Technology is changing the industry.

Data Analytics, Cloud based Development.

600 decisions are needed for one appraisal, they don’t all have to be made by the appraiser.

The Commercial Model: Any MAI doesn’t do it all.

6 hour do it yourself appraisals and people that do them are a dying breed, 10 years tops.

Our 1 hour appraisals are more credible and significantly better.

If you would like to go through our process and meet Tom please let me know.

Thanks, Mark.

Mark Sammis
National Sales Manager
Direct: 480-207-2775 
Accurity Valuation
8777 E Via De Ventura Dr.
Suite# 385
Scottsdale, AZ 85258
http://www.Accurityvaluation.com

From: Mike Ford mike@mfford.com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 12:19 PM
To: pvidi@atglenderlink.com
Cc: Mark Sammis
Subject: FW: Mike, Webinar Efficiency Workflow. Mark.

Hi Peter,

We spoke about Accurity the other day. I was unsure before, but all doubt has been eliminated now.

See claims. Top producer is doing 74 a month without overtime. That’s 3.7 a day!

I think I’d prefer to keep my license instead.

Best,
Mike

From: Mike Ford mike@mfford.com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 12:13 PM
To: ‘Accurity Valuation’
Subject: RE: Mike, Webinar Efficiency Workflow. Mark.

Hi Mark,
I am not interested in any firm that thinks or claims or pretends to be able to “complete” a USPAP compliant real estate appraisal in one hour.

Think about his or your claim for a minute. An office may do 74 appraisals in a month, but unless you are talking about appraiser assisted AVMs, NO ONE (single appraiser) can do 74 USPAP compliant appraisals in a single month. Tell them for me that I personally am calling them liars if they make that claim. I don’t waste my time listening to liars.

Mike

 From: Accurity Valuation msammis@accurityvaluation.com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 8:49 AM
To:mike@mfford.com
Subject: MIke, Webinar Efficiency Workflow. Mark.

MIke,

If you would like to watch the Accurity Webinar you missed this morning on Efficiency Workflow please let me know.

The host was the owner of our Houston office: Accurity Acorn Appraisal

1.   He illustrated how to do an appraisal in 1 hour that usually takes 4 hours.
2.   His top appraiser completed 74 appraisals last month without working overtime.
3.   Members were asking great questions on how to implement his system, you should hear the answers.

Enjoy a 3 minute video from our CEO on our website to learn how Accurity can benefit your business:
http://www.accurityvalution.com. Click on “Why Accurity”  

To Your Success with our Support, Mark.  

Mark Sammis
National Sales Manager
Accurity Valuation
8777 E Via De Ventura Dr.
Suite# 385
Scottsdale, AZ 85258
Direct: 480-207-2775
http://www.Accurityvaluation.com

If you no longer wish to receive communications from Accurity simply email unsubscribe@AccurityValuation.com
“

End quotes

Now THERE’s your ‘special’ appraisers!

Brand new appraisal opportunities have arisen, due to these variety changes.  Some amc’s have burnt so many bridges, they really don’t have the ability to place orders efficiently.  So sign up with all of them, and then bid everything standard very high.  If the game is substitutability in assignment process, appraisers can play that game too, only much better than regular process clerks can.

Your statement omits an important alternative engagement;  To drive the fee higher for amc’s than for lender direct, to accommodate the additional time hassles…  I’m a special appraiser.  I’m especially expensive if the amc does not engage in direct assignment practices.  But I’ll still work with anyone, regardless.  Most amc’s get a $550 fee, but direct assignment ones whom are friendly can still get a $450 if they play it straight.  If all I get is left over work and the amc thinks that fee is for complex, that’s a whole different story.  Complex only assignment usually starts $600, up to $800+.  It’s not my job to play pickup sticks so the discounters can cherry pick.  If I miss out on those normal routine orders for a normal routine $450, that’s when the price goes up.  Lol.

Hi Claire, I took it to mean an appraiser that works primarily in loan related appraisal work. I’ve heard others refer to them as ‘(GSE) Transaction Appraisers’ and a few other localized euphemisms.

Mike,

Have you ever considered a class action lawsuit against AMCs’ for the difference in fees reported to the consumer and what appraisers actually receive?  The banks and AMCs’ have misrepresented themselves for years now.  The amount of the accumulated difference enjoyed by the AMC’s to date by reporting it as an appraisal fee could be a huge settlement.  Seems logical.    .

John, lots of good suggestions.

MY list of AMCs I work for is far shorter and easier to maintain. It has ONE on it. I liked your suggestion about managing AMCs.

Twenty years ago I paid trainees including newly licensed appraisers a minimum of $25 an hour. That assumed eight hours per report. No highly experienced appraiser (say ten years or more) should (in my opinion) be working for less than $65 to $75 an hour today-even for production loan work.

Frankly my daily goal is $125 an hour for a full eight hour day. I don’t always (or even usually) hit it with residential work-but it is the goal. By shooting for this goal, sometimes I DO hit it. IF I were to shoot for $35 an hour I would never hit any higher.

Now I cannot afford to pay a trainee $25 an hour. Why? Because I cannot charge enough to warrant taking out four hours of MY day to hold their hands during inspections; plus the time it takes to review and recommend revisions to their when done in the next day or so. Anyway, I digressed.

If you are holding monthly meetings with other appraisers, then I’d encourage you to share your views about fees with them. I agree with your personal current fee structure. I think when TURD becomes effective; or FHA new guidelines, then the minimum will have to be in the $650 to $750 range for non complex work.

Those that work 10 to 12 hours a day and claim to do two appraisals a day need to stop that kind of “bragging”. Its unsustainable and more importantly, not a realistic indicator for top quality appraisal work performed by ONE individual. Those using staff to achieve the same goal (or more) need to estimate TOTAL man hours involved and staff overhead in any discussions of fees.

A normal or reasonable work week is 40 hours. IF one charges $500 for an SFR, then that same SFR on a weekend to accommodate a client or owner is $750.

As for time…some people golf. Others post to blogs. More realistically, refusing most AMC work DOES result in more free time if one wants it. So does Appraisal Union work. I cheerfully accept the trade off.

There are several problems with the AMC model and the reason they still exist is that the appraisers will not stand together and change the system. I conduct meeting of appraisers in this area each month and we discuss many of these issues. Most appraisers have no choice except to work with AMCs if they want to survive. AMCs control over 70% of all the appraisal assignment. All appraisers need to analyze their cost and charge fees that are appropriate for their experience, knowledge , training and the time, this includes all expenses.   If you are making $35 to $45 /hr you need to get out of the business and go work for someone else. My average fee for a “Cookie Cutter” track home in a subdivision is $ 550 and it should be higher. Some of my fees for reports for SFR have been as high as $800 and custom homes can be over $1,000.

Appraisers need to learn to manage the AMCs not let the AMCs manage them. I have a “Black List” of AMC which I do not work for. You should never let an AMC tell you what you can or can’t put into your appraisal report. They are not an “Intended User” of the report. You should never put an AIR statement in your report. AIR statements are HUD & Fannie requirements on the Lenders dealings with the appraiser, not on the Appraiser. If you put an AIR statement in your report, you the appraiser are certifying that the Lender has not violated their requirements to fannie or HUD, do you really want to do that? Read the complete AIR, would you swear in court that the lender/AMC has not violated any of those requirement?

If the AMC reviews the appraisal report they should forward their review along with your completed report to the Lender, not send it back to the appraiser for changes. Only the Lender should be able to make revision requests to the appraiser. Several times I have told the AMC to send my completed report to the Lender and very few times have I received anything back from the lender. Make appraisal reports that meet the Lenders requirements not the AMC’s.

TRID is going to be a nightmare for the appraisers fees, the AMCs are going to use this as a lever to keep the appraisal fee low. The appraisers need to stand up not let this happen.

All appraisers should go vacation as of 10-1-15 for 3 week or a month  and when they come back to work the minimum fee should be $750.

There are dozens of other issues I could discuss but I have to do an appraisal to cover my golf fees.

John

Re: three legged stool; to some extent that is true, BUT companies like PCV Murcor ALSO do commercial AMC work and have done the same thing to commercial rates that all the AMCs have done for SFR rates.

What I used to get $4,500 for is at best $3,500 today because I have to compete with their fees. What I used to easily get $7,500 to $10K for is extremely rare. Three quotes of from $25,000 to $50,000 this year never turned into anything-as is USUALLY the case. They (PCV) typically charge $1,500 to $3,500 with the usual cap around $2,500. Appraiser only gets half, but they DO pull CoStar Comps and give them to the appraiser. Those comps  have varying degrees of relevance. Their review Department (one man that Im aware of) is outstanding. They DO press for under two week turn times and it gets “dicey” asking for more no matter how justified. There are other issues as well, but that gets into potentially litigious territory that I don’t want to go into now.

In ’08 90% of my work was SFR and review of SFR (including 2-4s). Its necessary in a one person business to even out cash flow. I do NOT do one week turn around for commercial jobs. Interim SFR to 2-4 unit work is and always has been critical.

RA- We’ve joked about herding cats before. Its true. MOST appraisers are not joiners outside of their own professional associations. Frankly MOST don’t even join those. MOST appraisers in my experience would rather let someone else do the fighting. THAT is WHY we are where we are today!

MANY have tried to organize us, and just like regular businesses; most have failed. There are 19 to 21 Professional Coalitions in the Country. Louisiana; North Carolina and Virginia appear to be accomplishing modest but significant objectives. I’m not convinced Texas and Illinois are independent appraiser groups so much as extensions of the AI, but I could CERTAINLY be wrong about them. Arizona is a mystery of complicated inter-organizational intrigue and may or may not be imploding. Certainly there does not appear to be a single organization speaking for all appraisers there.

My own state’s coalition recently did yeomen’s work on AB624, but I believe if something ever happened to Its President or its original co founder; it could collapse. THAT is shameful in such a populated state! That’s why I continue to promote CCAP (or CaCap as its now referring to itself) almost as much as I do AGA.

I have NO IDEA how effective the remaining 13 to 15 coalitions are.

States NEED effective state groups, but ALL appraisers need an effective NATIONAL Group.

Look up my UNPAID VOLUNTEER Guild President’s background on LinkedIn and other sources (Peter Vidi). Particularly his legislative experiences. He is an appraiser; a broker, a title company AND our Guild leader. He KNOWS how to move in Washington; and the Guild knows how to move around in the States (like it did with the California Labor Federation). I’m not a complete stranger on local level politics either. I’m also an unpaid volunteer.

So, for the same reasons YOU outlined RA, I sought out a union. It does not have to reinvent the wheel and learn how to ‘fight city hall’. They already know HOW to do that AND they have the infrastructure in place.

What they DO require is for appraisers to join and demonstrate that it is in the unions interest to adopt the ‘Professional Guild’ of independents as their future business model. A “new” union model. One that works WITH business when possible, and makes no asinine, unreasonable demands just to look like they are ‘doing something’ for the members; but that is unafraid to fight when business is operating in the shadows and unfairly.

This will surprise some, but I have been critical of my parent unions national  ‘message’ and blind ‘obedience’ to the DNC. You think its hard to herd appraisers? Try convincing a powerful union that ‘Labors’ BEST chance for the future lies with Centrists; Independents and even Republicans since these folks PROMOTE business rather than suppress it.

Think it can’t be done? Read about SCIG at http://www.mfford.blogspot.com or BNSF. BIG Business AND LABOR joined together to fight pseudo-environmentalists, and self serving professional NIMBYs. (Note: Im not anti environment-I’m just anti racist LIARS and I’ve said THAT in public too). If I were anti environment, I would not be listed in the AIs Green registry (non member section).

So far the unions have not thrown me under the bus. Just the opposite. When I called for help in California, THEY (OPEIU/AFL-CIO) responded. They did it quickly, effectively and unconditionally.

RA- WE are DOING things. We are routinely defending appraisers already. We are standing behind OUR other supporters. Not a week goes by that either I or one of the other Chapter Leaders don’t have to get involved in some new appraisers problems.

So, once again, I urge ALL to contact Jan Bellas at Janbellas@aprpaisersguild.org and join us. We certainly need YOUR help! ALL of you. Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Independents, TEA Party, Conservative, Liberal and Progressive, Greens-everyone. All I care about is whether you are appraisers and interested in bettering OUR lot.

Mike,

I would estimate that I get about 40% of the fee, staff gets around 20% and the rest goes towards business expenses…taxes, office supplies, software fees, MLS dues, continued education. I need a full time employee to answer phone calls and emails and do data entry. I couldn’t possibly do that on my own, while being out in the field half of the day. I work on the appraisals after inspections and at night after my daughter goes to bed. I usually put in a 10 hour day. To put this into perspective, I make roughly $25 to $30 per hour on basic single family and condo appraisals (300 to 400), and closer to $25 per hour on 2-4 unit (450) complex and FHA appraisals (500) and around $35 per hour on farms (2,000), estates (500) and other non-Fannie Mae assignments (400 to 500). I should probably increase my complex and FHA fees by another 50 bucks to make that up, but I’ve been told the lenders won’t pay more than 500. I think 550 is reasonable for an FHA assignment, considering the inspection takes about 2 hours, and any work that needs to be completed needs a cost to cure estimate. So I would say the average is closer to $25 per hour.

Clint, outstanding response! Thank you. I mean it

You helped make my point about the number of ‘man hours’ needed to properly complete a report. It sounds like YOU do all that is required, but have help. My contention is that The AMC model does not compensate either YOU OR your staff for all the work that is done.

By the way, I am only estimating  25% for office / staff overhead in my efforts to formulate a minimum. If you are only getting about $150 for yourself, it suggests my estimate is very low. Id seriously be interested in hearing what you think should be a more accurate percentage. It has a significant impact on my estimates. Since I only have myself in the ‘at  home office’, and my other office is as close to ‘free’ as is possible my own opinions of typical multi person staffed office expense are not real accurate. I do NOT want to be wrong as to reasonable costs for this. It could undermine the entire proposal.

I’m specifically trying to calculate a truly “Reasonable” fee nationally for the one size fits all model that we KNOW AMCS and lenders will insist on.  Doesn’t mean anyone will be bound by it. Its merely an effort to get it from the current UNreasonable $300 to $350 range to something that is  reasonable for the easiest of assignments.

Attorneys I contacted, contend the appraisers THEY talk to claim six hours is all the normal report takes. I content it is eight to 10+ and that not less than one working day a week (or its overtime evening equivalent) is spent reading, reviewing, researching and responding to AMC revision / rebuttal /addendum requests.

The total number of ‘man” hours it takes for one appraiser or his / her staff to complete an appraisal in the detail you described (plus 1004MC and its analysis) is critical.

So far I was falling in a range of from $420 to about $650 for ‘licensed’ though “certified required” (has a higher, low end for all FHA and condos).

I really suspect that IF a benefits package equivalent to the Fed & State Appraiser employees is calculated at 25% vs 20% (very low) and office expenses are 25%”+” that the most probable “reasonable” range is going to start around $500. Possibly ranging to as high as $650 for conventional and $750 for FHA (how much are YOU charging to crawl under a house; into an attic AND to use a volt meter on every single socket in the house? They’ve changed a one half hour to an hour inspection into a four hour commercial equivalent inspection.

That conventional base fee  would be for a non complex, conforming loan limit, FNMA, NON Certified appraiser doing an SFR.

FHA will necessarily be higher now. So will condos & PUDs (MUST READ THOSE ASSOCIATION DOCUMENTS, or you CANNOT KNOW the ownership interests involved!).

I am revising my projections because I included holidays, sick days and vacation days  as income building days and they are not.

Clint, again outstanding response. I hope you are willing to offer an opinion on the office support costs (not necessarily dollars, but as a percentage of fees).

Thanks, Mike

NEVER let anyone cite base federal pay rates per hour as those do NOT include location premiums; benefits OR costs of self employment & office overhead.

When I speak about getting the L out of the business I am speaking to appraisers who are strictly residential appraisers. That train wreck took place years ago but we are still seeing the ongoing destruction of the business. Every time a survivor of the impact pokes his head out of the wreckage something new is thrown at them. 1004MC, UAD, CU, the latest HUD cluster puck.

Mike Ford is a general certified appraiser who sits on a 3-4 legged stool rather than a 1 legged stool like most residential appraisers. I assure you that life on a 1 legged stool is far more dramatic than the cushy life that you lead. You don’t have termites (AMCs) trying to eat on your 1 wooden leg and you don’t have idiots with chainsaws swinging wildly at your stool like HUD is currently doing.

It’s a matter of perspective. Quit doing commercial work, legal work, and stick to residential only for a year. That should give you a better glimpse of the odds the residential appraiser faces today.

Yes I was a strictly a residential appraiser and by 2009. By mid 2009 it was obvious that this was no longer a sustainable business model or a business that one could engage in with dignity. I gave it odds of 500 to 1 at the time. Quixall Crossett odds, for those of you who are fans of horse racing.

*Quixall Crossett – The worst race horse in history.

On the other side of the coin…how is that “United Appraisers” movement working out for you guys?  You’ve had 6+ years to unite so far and you’re about as close to pulling it off as I am to building a stairway to Mars.

Uniting appraisers is a pipe dream.  Take it from someone who wasted 2 years of his life and several thousand dollars on that dream.

I’ve watched at least 20 different small groups attempt to unite appraisers so they could write beautiful letters to one department or another discussing the injustice or HVCC, the injustice of a lack of fee transparency, etc.  I’ve also watched those groups fade into dust as the years rolled by just as my small group did of several hundred appraisers.  To say that uniting appraisers for anything is an impossibility is the understatement of the century.

Here is your residential appraiser in a nutshell Mike:

Rob them of 50% of their fees?  No problem

Block their ability to collect at the door?  No problem…consider it a loan.

Slap on the 1004MC for no additional fee?  I thought you’d never ask.

UAD Crap?  Thank God…I needed something else to fill my spare time.

The Collateral Undertaker BS?  How did you know that I had a time machine and access to 36 hour days?

The lastest HUD rule changes?  I always wanted to be a home inspector…especially one that works for free.

No Mike…I quit after seeing that trying to unite appraisers for ANYTHING is insane idea.  Why?  You may want to sit down for this answer.  I came to the conclusion that appraisers would readily submit genuine rape if necessary to keep those orders coming in.  I came to the conclusion that appraisers as a group have an intelligence quotient below that of a single cell organism.

What “profession” endures any of the above mandatory rape requirements without fighting back?  Name one profession that has come close to enduring such abuse and was ready to have more manure shoveled onto their heads at a moments notice?

There was a time to attempt to unite appraisers (2009, 2010) and there is a time to attempt in vain to talk sense into the heads of appraisers who insist upon eating shi* for a living because they are forced to.

No.

Appraisers that seek to divide rather than to unite are the problem. Appraisers that offer not one shred of constructive, practical advice on how to save the profession, rather than to abandon it, are the problem.

Appraisers that would rather quit than to fight for what is right are the problem. Appraisers that are content to blog and complain without DOING SOMETHING, are the problem.

Don’t much care what those kind of EX appraisers have to say anymore.