I was shocked to see Mr. Baggins declare that appraisals are required by the fed. In 2015, 323.3 was modified to allow the use of any valuation method acceptable to Fannie and Freddie, functionally taking the country back to the Wild West. See my article in this month’s Appraisal Today (pg. 9) about the GSE AI AVM that will put resi appraisers out of business by 2023. The GSEs are neutering the appraisal “requirement” by preparing the AVM behind the scenes and rolling out tons of new loan programs that do not require appraisals. Everybody on this page (including me) should go get their FAA drone pilot’s license! It’s a simple formula; the minute lenders can be assured of a collateral-related loss ratio under 5% of origination value or origination expenses, the carbon-based real property appraiser is toast. (Me: 45 years in finance; chief appraiser for Commerce Security Bank; The Money Store; Ameriquest Mortgage; Wells Fargo REIG; Morgan Stanley Mortgage Capital and several others; property valuation manager for Countrywide Securities, Hansen Quality Loan Services; founder, 2006, InsideValuation LLC (commercial BPOs, sold to LRES a few months ago); until July of last year, Senior Property Appraiser / Investigator, Bureau of Real Estate Appraisers (California).

Dear Mr. The Other Side,

I would like to say that my heart bleeds for you and your AMC but in reality I hope everyone connected with an AMC dies the most horrible death imaginable.

Did appraisers ask you to take on the burden of dealing with angry brokers? No I had no problem dealing with angry clients or brokers before AMCs were SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS.

Did appraisers ask you to deal with headaches of long turn times? No (In fact we provided most clients with 24 turn time before HVCC came along). Give appraisers back the $300 that you’re stealing from their pockets each day and I’m sure that most will gladly relieve you of that burden.

Did we ask you to lie on the HUD-1 about the actual appraisal fee?  No

Did we beg you to allow us to extend loans to you for 30 to 90 days (interest free). Not hardly.

Did we ask permission to “bleed you dry”? NO and I think you are referring to the incorrect party that’s being bled dry.

How do you sleep at night knowing that you are nothing more than a low life blood sucking leech?

I have four short words for you but I’ll let you figure out what I have to say to you. GTFH

Mr. The other side;

I can believe that in your AMC world there are appraisers who are sending in applications, samples, fingerprints, etc. to get on your panel of chumps. What do you think of those appraisers who refuse to work with scum companies such as yours but are still very busy. If an appraiser were so busy that they accepted all they wanted and turned down two $450. assignments each work day would they need your AMC? Let’s see that is $900. each five day work week for 52 weeks should come to about $234,000. if my math is correct. However, it is difficult to take that many assignments while taking four, seven day cruises and several trips to other fun places each year! Of course we do not do that, (LOL) but…….what if we did?

See you in Jamaica next week also in July and August…it sucks to work for AMCs!

Mr. The other side,

Sir, you say you work for an AMC and as such you bring NO punch to the party! As a full time appraiser I have zero use for you or your AMC company! If you want to appraise property, please do so. There is no need for you to take an assignment and then attempt to get me or another appraiser to do the work only to have you skim part of the fee. Why do you not go and get a real job?

I have to wonder what is wrong with an appraiser who works with AMCs? Try to do a bit of marketing! Some of us NEVER work for an AMC and turn down several appraisal assignments each week just because we cannot get to them. No need for an AMC! Oh well, what do we know? LOL

You sound like a  typical AMC. Cold, uncaring and money grubbing with no real empathy or compassion for appraisers.

AMC’s are useless in the appraisal profession. I never invited you to manage my business. I never asked you to deal with my clients on my behalf, to quote or collect my fees. Before you stole my business, I had 2 secretaries, an accountant, an office manager and 8 appraisers.  I managed my business successfully for more than a decade before you got crammed down my throat by corrupt politicians. Eappraiseit fraud should have been prosecuted to the full extend of the law. Instead Cuomo rewarded First American Eappraiseit and WAMU’s fraud by giving AMC’s more power with passing of HVCC (now sunset).

AMC’s are a scam and the only reason you have a job is because Cuomo, part owner of an AMC- AMCO, decided to reward the fraudsters and give them even more power.

Keep up the good work. Your true colors are shown by your heartless comments. Keep it up. You are doing a fantastic job of disclosing what you and AMC’s are all about!

LOL there ARE no laws requiring AMCs to exist anymore! Multiple posts and every one demonstrates more than the one before how absolutely uninformed you are about the business you are in! You are nothing more than the paid whores of the mortgage banking industry that facilitates them price fixing and circumventing a variety of federal and state laws…as well as engage in bad banking practices in general.

If you want satisfaction, then sell it on the street because no one is buying it in here!

@The Other Side:

What evidence do you have to support your view that appraisers do not consider ‘the other side’ meaning client or the people they are helping? Clearly you know little to nothing about what or how an appraiser is supposed to approach appraisal assignments. There ARE rules that govern what we can, cannot or MUST do on every single assignment. Those rules equate to time and skill.

As for ‘more money than the client is ‘even paying’, you mean more than the gross fees of $495 to $550 that mortgage lenders and banks have uniformly negotiated with AMCs like yours, with no regard to the scope of work required under USPAP (different than YOUR perceptions of Scope of Work, I am certain). Well lets address THAT: AMCs want a one size fits all national fee, regardless of complexity; and you want certified appraisers only.

OK, THAT fee would HAVE to be based on at least $85.00 an hour (within FNMA conforming loan limits). Now I personally believe the average non complex time requirement is 8 to 12 working hours; but some attorneys hold that the norm should be closer to 6 based on testimony they’ve heard over the years. I don’t happen to believe it, but just for arguments sake, lets assume that’s true.

Six hours at $85.00 per hour is $510.00. Unless YOUR AMC is billing YOUR clients at the high end of $550, AND only keeping $40 per order, then you cannot AFFORD good quality reports from certified appraisers.

As for turn around time, YOU do not get to dictate that. Each assignment has variables. I MAY have to wait for return calls from listing of selling agents at the comparables; who in turn may not call back for two or three days if at all. I may need to wait on call backs from planning or zoning departments or home owners associations. Example, how long do YOU have to wait or how many calls do YOU have to make to get call backs from appraisers?

The LAW dictates the steps that we MUST follow in order to properly complete appraisals; NOT the client. Certainly there would be less conflict if YOUR bosses hired competent, qualified appraisers to determine who to assign real estate appraisals to, but then THAT would require standing up to YOUR clients unreasonable demands. Because you and your bosses either choose NOT to do so, or simply do not know WHEN to do so, it means that WE still have to dig in and hold firm to YOUR asinine and uninformed ‘requests’.

As for “requests” for revisions; they are often prohibited requests like removing negative comments about a property condition or its location (we cannot do that); OR (my favorite) a demand that the FNMA standards ordered, completed and delivered appraisal done two weeks ago just be ‘retyped’ for use as an FHA appraisal now. HINT: CANNOT legally be done!

You say that “this is a business” and everyone does their work and gets a piece of the pie. Well, not exactly. You see WE are a profession. YOU are an opportunistic parasitic alternative to a SOUND BUSINESS MODEL followed by banking for many decades and only abandoned in 2009 under HVCC.

You provide NO SERVICE to us. None. You COULD do so IF you (as an industry) had any integrity, but you do not. You see an appraisal as a commodity rather than a professionals product. You take the (unethical) loan brokers part that anything is ok to make the deal happen, and wonder why we resist.

As for you being unhappy dealing with appraisers if you had ever bothered to learn OUR needs as a profession or to meet those, we’d be less difficult. You DO have an alternative though.

Practice speaking very clearly “Would you like a side of fries with that order?”

OR you can study REASONABLE fees at http://mfford.com/html/c___r_fees.htm

Nice comment Chris but let’s be honest; after 7 years appraisers still don’t despise AMCs enough to FIGHT BACK.  I hated AMCs for years after choosing to “walk away” from the BS.  Over the long run however I came to despise appraisers far far far more because they were too lazy and too stupid to organize and fight back.

If you’re going to hate someone Chris, make sure that you’re hating the right group.  It took me years to figure it out but your real enemies sleep all around within your own camp.

You management companies are lucky to be here. You are only here because the government made you.

You idiots send an order, then still look for a cheaper faster appraiser. You run LATE because you sat on the deal for 3 days trying to save $10.00 for your company.

You idiots think ordering an appraisal is like ordering a pizza, ya we will be there in 5 days. You idiots have no idea what can go into completing a credible report. You idiots don’t even care. Just tell you clients they will have the report back in 5 days. There’s your trouble making promises YOU can not keep.

Appraisals are HARD. We can sit in front of these computers for 5 long mind bending hours at one shot trying to write a headache deal to the exacting standards made up by someone who probably has NOT appraised in 20 years.

You don’t know we wake up early or work late to get caught up, You don’t care. We don’t know how long each one is going to take, We can kind of guess, but that’s all it is a guess. Until we SEE the house, then we know what we have to do to write a credible report that we are liable for, for what, 7-10 years these days.

You don’t know we work in the pouring down rain to get the job done, you don’t know we work in 3-12+ inches of snow to get the job done. You don’t care we feel a little sick and slow up 50% but just keep typing so you idiots don’t cut us off.

You say appraisers blow your settlements, you cant get a clear to close until everything is done, that’s why you rush us, so the borrower does not have time to talk to another lender. That’s ALL is about with AMC’s. Turn time, Hey look ABC Bank, we get your deals done in 4 .8 days, give us your work, no wonder why they yell at you.

I ran a fantastic business for 15 years until you came into being. Making $350 a job, $450 for FHA back in 2002-2009. I employed people who made us more productive. Faster and better appraisals for the industry. Our fee’s should be $500 – $600 a job. Were do you think all the appraisers went. YOU put them out of business. Now your crying why it takes so long.

My average turn time was and still is 4-7 days. Always will be. Some weeks go good, Some weeks go really bad.

Today I do not have an office manger to assist me, that’s because YOU took our money and do nothing for us! You think you do, but you don’t, You think saving us a couple of phone calls from people looking for the reports saves us time, it doesn’t, because we STILL have to answer Endless status updates for you!

I had a great company doing 30-50 appraisals a week. With NO underwriter letters, Why, cause I TOLD my clients not to bother me, the more they bother us, the longer it takes us to write reports.

I had a great company, Not now with you. You want half of our fee, cause you have a family to feed. Go work at McDonalds and stop being a leach on us sucking our money and doing NOTHING to help us except to keep some crying mortgage brokers off our backs, poor baby.

You don’t have a clue what it takes to write a credible report. You don’t have a clue how long it takes us to get to each property, to inspect, answer the borrowers questions and concerns, You don’t have a clue how measure the house so we can do a sketch properly,  You don’t have a clue how long it takes to drive comparables for a photo, You don’t have a clue how long it takes us to get home again, You don’t have a clue how long it takes to download photos, You don’t have a clue how we make revisions to prior reports that we have written in the past 3 months, You don’t have a clue how long it takes to write a report, You don’t have a clue how long it takes to generate an xml file or how long it takes to upload, and reupload and reupload. You don’t have a clue how long it take us to research comps to get the right 5-9 so we can take the photos while in the subjects neighborhood. You don’t have a clue how long it takes to keep our computers up to date, You don’t have a clue how long it takes us to order supplies for our offices and fix our tech issues that pop up once a week, You don’t have a clue how the MLS’s keeps changing and we have to learn their NEW system, You don’t have a clue how we give up our lives living with you idiots trying to get the cheapest fastest appraiser. And YOU pay the price for that. Your fault !

I worked for 1 company, 1st report graded 100%. 2nd report with no revision requests grade 30%, Why, didn’t know, than thought about it, I would have went right to the top of the computer ordering system, but with higher fee’s than most, 3rd report graded 100%. all they did was LOWER MY “score” so the computer didn’t send orders over at my slightly higher than typical fee. When I called the big guy to see why I was graded 30%, no return call, Called twice more, NO return call, Done with them. Again, I did the jobs no one wanted, Wrote perfect reports and no return call.

An appraiser friend of mine was cancelled on 10 minutes before getting to the house. O.K., it happens, but a week later, 10 stips were sent to her, she politely replied please send it to the appraiser you gave the deal away too, a week later, same thing 10 more stips, apparently he/she didn’t do 3 of them right the 1st time, than a week later another 7 stips, this time she replied, “Its a shame you canceled on me, your report would have been written within 48 hours, with no stips. 3 week delay to the borrower so the AMC could save $10-$20.

Got what they paid for.

You Sir, simply do not have a clue.

Because you never sat with an appraiser for a week.

Know this Sir, You are despised by US !

Hey dude.  If you can’t handle the pressure, step aside and let me back in there with a direct lender connection.  I never had such problems, because I took the lead position, rather than the subservient one.  It’s not my fault, the amc’s are so dang awful at managing the high pressure systems which are constantly present when dealing with brokerage offices.  You’ve made many blanket assumptions, which you may think justify your position, but really are more reflective of your lack of licensing, and lack of understanding what sorts of dynamic responsibilities really fall on the appraisers back.  You’re just a process clerk, so if you don’t like that, get the appraisal license yourself.  If you dare.  I’m the one whom meets with the borrower in their own home, carries the personal liability, signs the report with my integrity and license on the line, and answers the tough questions.  Tell me your company name.  The fee for you guys is going $600+, because of you’re absolutely improper attitude towards appraisers.

Wow. What a pessimistic petty little thing you are. You are just bitter because in a world with AMCs you aren’t able to slack off and still make all the money. You’re held accountable for your actions, and how terrible you are at your job is actually brought to light and shoved in your face. It’s appraisers like you that end up on our inactive list with a little note that says “do not use, has a bad attitude”, and a reference list of all the orders you screwed up by being nasty or late. My employer is just that, an employer. You’re right, it’s not their place to be compassionate for you or for us; it’s their place to make sure the wheels are turning and deadlines are met. You don’t care about the people who are buying or selling their homes, you just care about your own sorry hide. You can cry and whine all you want, the laws requiring AMCs to exist are there for a reason: to protect the borrower. I deal with lousy appraisers all day long who think they’re the absolute best and can do no wrong, and then when they’re late submitting a report because they forgot about it or can’t find comps, I’m the one who has to explain to the brokers exactly why and what’s going on. So don’t sit their on your high horse and moan about AMCs, we’re here to help the borrower because no one else will. Certainly not you.

It is not just the parasite AMCs that give appraisers a ration. Today I went to the post office and there was an electric bill. Not any of the checks from Banks or Credit Unions that are past due! I am referring to several thousand dollars of past due fees (enough to vacation in Australia this summer!) I learned a long time ago not to accept any assignment from an Appraisal Management Company.

Yes, I know that these clients will pay me….when they get damn good and ready. In the mean time they will have their processor call and check the status of an assignment over and over several times each day. There is no shortage of appraisers just a shortage of those who do not give a damn! Best regards to all!

You got that right. Need more HUD appraisers? Just drop the requirements..we don’t even care if they’re alive. Have any appraisers locked up Federal prisons? We’ll take them. The industry is an absolute joke.

Baggins: as we’ve seen over and over again, if the rules become too burdensome, FNMA will just pressure Congress to tell the regulators to make the more ‘flexible’…again.

I agree re Credit Unions. Especially now that there are so many local ones with expanded fields of membership. My biggest financial regret is becoming inactive in my old NFCU account. Best CU in the world, but at least I have a semi local available where car loan is. CUs are no friends of appraisers in general though. They really bought into that AVM BS. One of my old bosses order appraisals now and says its all BS. Never could persuade him otherwise. Head of mortgage lending is  an old friend and she’s more receptive to realities but in the end, price pressure on ‘behalf of the members’ wins out.

As for FNMAs foreign investors (and any other real estate securities investors); they buy recklessly because they know that (1) the loans are mostly insured; (2) those that aren’t can be pushed back at FNMA in event of defaults, (3) if the insurers and re-insurers like AIG or Societe Generale in France are in danger of going bust again, Uncle Sugar will come bail them out (Again). Someone tell me again how THAT is free enterprise?

Investors in SFR (REITS) CAN do ok IF they were bought at depressed prices where leveraged debt service and operating costs are well below area rents. My old broker from 45 years ago had over 200 sfrs and 2-4s until his divorce. Even after the separation both he and ex wife live pretty well off. Best guess $70 to $75 million portfolio.

I used to road race along Rock Creek Parkway under the Kennedy Center overhang in a ’74 Lotus Europa (SII) not the twin cam, past Embassy Row to a place in NW (?) near Chevy Chase(?) or was it Bethesda- called Henry’s I think. Even went through downtown once at no less than 75 including corners (Bless those wide DC streets at 4AM!).  Ah to be young and dumb again! How do males survive their 20’s anyway?

At least I have half of it still *g*.

CB, I think your view is more accurate than Chris’ from my own experience. It took me eleven years to get into the profession. I wasn’t born into it. Though in fairness to Chris, we’ve all seen appraisers who make us wonder how THEY ever got in.

There is no magic fee exposure number. Like you said, more complex SFR jobs can be $750 to $4,000 by themselves. Then again, I NEVER invoice those! I COLLECT at the door. As far as AMCs go, I cant see letting them have more than three (3) SFRs jobs outstanding at any one time. A hit of $1,350 WOULD usually hurt me unless I just happened to have gotten paid on a commercial job too around the same time; but it wouldn’t put me out of business.

My old partner took a $2,500 hit and it almost put him under. HIS kid was in pre med; wife was selling real estate…or at least she had a license and tried to sell R.E. I don’t know about you guys, but any savings I had disappeared by the end of 2010 when I was having to rebuild my fee shop from the ground up.

As for some brokers that took up to $$5,000 hits for doing BPOs when their AMCs went under, I agree no sympathy. They thought those $90 to $125 BPO fees were easy money compared to listing and selling. They NEVER BOTHERED to be concerned whether they were legal products or not!

Best thing in my opinion to come out of CO rules, was that I no longer am presented or have to sign indemnity agreements. That’s a critical consideration, for my mass marketing substitutability program. 

You’re doing great Mike, keep up the good work. Myself, I avoid government at nearly all costs. It’s rather ironic that I’m a real estate appraiser. Go figure. The power of the pen, and all of that. We keep on going. Liked to read your posts at workingre as well.

I cannot surf the AF anymore, because they don’t like sensible surfers whom have adblock and flashblock installed. You’ll find me blogging in the space with no or limited advertisements. If I have to actually log in, I’d better not see an ad right away.