Thanks, much appreciated. My appraiser pal in Aurora hired an inspection assistant whom is an appraiser, and is getting good traction after several years of attorney marketing. If you’re willing to dress in a suit and tie, go to court rooms, be an expert witness, the right strategy can work. He’s getting $800+ per, plus various expenses and follow up. Thinking of something in insurance though, just not sure yet.

We ran up to somewhere west of Loveland a few times last week, caught a fish, took in fresh air, that was nice. Reminds me what it was like pre amc days. When I initially started I’d purposefully market to mountain area lenders, as I started in mountain, had the skills, and loved to fit in fishing trips on long drives to the rural areas.

The business model of an amc is predicated upon taking advantage of appraisers, eliminating the appraiser, and replacing the appraiser with lower priced outsourced services. The amc industry does not attract honest people and that is a bonafide fact. The appropriate flag for the amc industry is the pirate flag, all they do is abscond with other peoples stolen money, then brag about record setting business growth.

I like your home owner and pre listing strategies, I used to do some of that. Got tired of always explaining the details of engagement and client relationships to people whom just turn around and try to boss me around though.

If the amc industry was not present, there would still be adequate lending work for every appraiser in this country, we could all return to mortgage lending and create many new skilled licensed positions. Instead, we get felony property data collectors, institutionalized junk fee billing schemes, and amc criminal managers hacking appraisers email accounts on a routine basis. Equity!

Baggins,
Sadly, my Colorado brother, things have taken that turn. I’m with you, I don’t know how much longer I’ll hold out.

I’ve shifted a great deal of my work to estate and private homeowner/pre-listing work. The very few AMC’s I work for seem to be barely holding on as well. The VA work has slowed to a trickle, but that is mostly of Denver RLC fault assigning work to out of area roster appraisers, which has led to basically scraps for local appraisers. I’m busier than most guys in my area, and I know a few people with their hands on the eject handle too.

I still get the occasional random shot-gunned appraisal broadcast from some rando AMC for $400 and just laugh. I will continue appraising to some degree, most likely until the new 1004 comes out. But I don’t want to be where I’m not wanted, and the GSE’s, SIG’s, and TAF have made that clear.

Keep swinging though, you’re much too valuable to us and the industry. I’ll be writing those letters soon.
Cheers, and Hulk Kennedy for prez.

Just getting back to look at a few semi recent threads. I had an email melt down and unsubscribed from everything, lol. Thanks for the kind words though. I don’t know exactly how or why, but somewhere along the way I became good at forming intellectual arguments in writing, speed typing, speed reading, and acquiring whatever I needed online however obscure, with comprehensive online researching skills.

I’m just going to give up, I don’t know what to do. Marketing for all year long, not a single new pick up. I’m confined to the realm of mortgage lending and default management, as that is all I know and all I want to do. Disappointing to see a decade later how many default managers fell to the hybrid approach or the amc model, often both. I’m looking around at some other distribution platforms whom poached various direct assignment clients away from Mercury and Scope, these sites are so poorly developed and managed. Regorra, Value Link Connect systems, one other I forget. They absolutely refuse to acknowledge a broad spectrum of verifiable shortcomings with their systems. The appraisal request distribution platforms are clearly advocates for the amc industry at this point regardless if they provide any safeguards for appraisers or not. However, I’ll run a last few marketing blitz campaigns first like the old days; ‘Keep my information though, because I’ll be available if you can assign orders directly and not force me to work with amc companies, which myself and three out of four other appraisers nationwide also refuse to work with amc’s.’ Despite the Corelogic tie in, I’ll continue to recommend Mercury systems or ValueTrac systems as those are the only ones which provide comprehensive safe guards against amc bidding shopping spam. The cumulative time drain of the companies allowing a hundred shopping emails for each individual amc order placed. Name one other industry where a customer is already in place, billing already secured, and a third party company solicits a hundred different licensed contractors for each individual singular order placed.

Hulk for president 2024. I’ll be happy to sign on to anything anti amc or class action related. I still need to write the important letters regarding the hopeful regulation of the avm industry. Just last week I identified a builder mls entry which was $80k higher than county records indicate. Yet another instance of clever agents manipulating avm results to create illusionary price anticipation, to keep their base price rising schemes going. For those reading this thread, please try to write a letter, then distribute that same letter through these FOUR different regulatory groups whom may review. (second link comment brings up three different selections.)

Repeat post; Letter writing request regarding AVM regulation formation.

https://www.fhfa.gov/SupervisionRegulation/Rules/Pages/Quality-Control-Standards-for-Automated-Valuation-Models.aspx

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/06/21/2023-12187/quality-control-standards-for-automated-valuation-models

Call me tomorrow please

RA, there is a little chatter on appraisersforum.com but no real details. Google “ARCC appraiser”. Based on the limited info I have, from a couple of brief emails, things went very well. I spoke with Pat just prior to the “meeting” but have not spoken via phone with him since. I actually just sent him an email today and I am awaiting a response.

Jason,

I spoke with Pat Turner last week to discuss options. I am awaiting word from him on how a recent meeting went before moving forward. I have nothing to lose by taking another stab at taking down AMCs via legal means. I have no desire to return to the business and I could truly rest in peace at the end of my life knowing that AMCs were wiped off the face of our planet.

Jason, Email me your contact information

Pturner@peturner.com

Pat Turner

The one and only

I don’t know about fame

But we will need Jason as well

Pat

I’d love to be on board in some capacity. When you have your plan together, let me know how I can get involved. Thank you for your efforts!

Pat Turner, you, and I appear to be on a similar page Jason. The toughest part is having a plan, and we have a rough draft in hand. I have had 14 years to dwell on this topic, as well as a few failed attempts to terminate AMCs. This plan stems from something I attempted years ago (exposing their crimes through the media). Although I convinced Ken Harney of the Washington Post to write about it regularly, it never gained traction. This plan has massive legal teeth if wire and mail fraud are introduced as part of the suit. It also has the ability to go viral both because of the number of homeowner affected, and the amount of money involved. It would not surprise me to see it dwarf the Fox News settlement. Getting homeowners to sign on will be a breeze with the proper online platform. As Baggins noted, finding a law firm that is not afraid of taking on the banking lobby (AMCs) is the key. We must convince a firm that appraisers are willing to go out and sign up homeowners for the class action in order to be taken seriously. I firmly believe that 1,000,000+ angry homeowners signatures can beat the banking lobby in court any day of the week. We lay the foundation of sign ups via word of mouth, Facebook, YouTube, and something similar to Change.org. 4.6 million people signed a petition to have Amber Heard removed from the Aquaman II film. How many homeowners would you guess would sign a petition if they learned that they were being robbed by AMCs who have been engaging in theft by deception for 14 years? If it gathers enough steam it will go viral; if that happens you can nearly always capture the attention of the national media and double if not quadruple your numbers. I’ve seen it happen time and again. The question is: If appraisers will not boycott, donate, or write letters; would they go to the effort to sign up those first few thousand homeowners? Appraisers are the only wild card in this gamble. On the flip side, if you have a worthy injustice, once you get past the first few thousand signatures, social media, online petitions, and the media will typically take over the heavy lifting.

pturner@peturner.com

Open to all who wish to help

Jason (below) appears to be on board. Count me in Pat. I am hoping that you are the world renowned Pat Turner of VaCap fame.

RA, you seem very knowledgeable in these areas. I would love to get on board with a group of individuals really motivated to take serious action in order to salvage the appraisal profession. I have some extra time these days, but certainly not enough time to take on organizing a class action(s) alone. If you have any leads in this regard, let me know please. #HadEnough

Physics had Einstein, Cheers had Cliffy Clavin, politics has Donald Trump, and Appraisers Blogs has Baggins. Careful what you wish for…life online would be boring without The Bag Man. I may not always agree with him but you have to respect a guy that can write in his sleep.

Ralphy is busy making $300 per appraisal and thinks he’s getting rich. He should be earning $700 to $1,200 per appraisal. I wouldn’t take comp photos and make a trip to the county records office for $300.

Then call me “Disgusted Appraiser”. I quit half way through what should have been a 40 year career. Why? Because I refused to be strapped by a barrel by AMCs and raped daily. I also refused to do work for attorneys to survive. I refused to teach appraisal courses like many of my peers did to survive and I refused to live off of commercial work that did not appeal to me. I easily lost 150+ clients nationwide when HVCC kicked in and was forced to fire people that I had spent years training. If it makes you feel better I am far from retired; I simply moved to another field that pays ten times more than the new and improved appraisal profession. Hint: Just because you retire (QUIT) appraising doesn’t mean you can’t still be angry as L at AMCs over the hijacking of a profession that you once loved. If I have the energy, I will be fighting those sunny beaches (AMCs) thirty years from now.

I understand your explanation, but many borrowers don’t read the report in much detail and the $700 +/- paid can always be justified by the AMC as just a appraisal processing fee. I gave up doing AMC work 20 years ago, when it became very apparent that lenders and lender interest groups were moving toward controlling the entire appraisal process for mortgage lending. They control the fees, turn times, bidding process, comp selection, adjustments, scope and most other appraisal methods. Appraisers can comply or get no or minimal work OR leave. I chose to leave for other appraisal clients. There is certainly appraisal life, after working for lenders for 20 years.

Their actions are indeed criminal (theft by deception on the largest scale in U.S. history). They are lying to the homeowner and the IRS by hiding their bloated charge under the disguise (hence the word deception) of the appraisal fee. If the HUD-1 disclosed the true appraisal fee appraisers would be able to charge far more for an appraisal. A class action lawsuit by homeowners is the only way to put an end to this crime and free appraisers from what I refer to as “voluntary servitude”. Thankfully, I didn’t volunteer to board the ship before it sailed.

It certainly won’t fix the AMC nightmare. I have been disclosing my fee on the report for many years. I believe some states are required to disclose the AMC fee as well. I believe having to disclose disclose the AMC’s fee might raise some eyebrows for the folks paying for the appraisals if they actually read the report. The real issue is the AMC’s burying their fees in closing statements by calling them part of the appraisal fees, which we all know is BS. These actions should be criminal if not already.