Well said. As usual !!

I consult with a lot of Texas appraisers. THEIR biggest complaint is about (alleged) incompetent agents. Imagine that!

Specifically, failure to support their listings with CMAs. Or builders who order final inspections before the improvements are 90% or more complete. Only slightly less often against those agents that engage in slander or libel and document it.

Manufactured; modular and mobile (also manufactured, but personal property) have their own special rules. We have so few in my market I simply stopped doing them rather than trying to keep up with ever-changing rules- some resulting from Mtg Co & manufacturers’ pressure. Short answer though, is I agree with you on that issue. One minor correction. Modulars MAY be comped against stick-built…unless there are other modulars around that are more similar.

I’m curious why when you protested the appraisal that there was ever a discussion between you and the appraiser? You aren’t the client. Did the actual client (the lender) authorize you to have direct discussions with the appraiser? Did they first assure that you understand the Dodd Frank Act?

Additionally, if he didn’t sign the appraisal then it is because he didn’t do it; OR he authorized an assistant to sign on his behalf…which IS permissible. Imho not advisable, but allowable.

That’s a practice I’d like to see ended. Both you and I or any consumer should have confidence that the person who visited their property and identified themself as the appraiser is also the one that really wrote it and signed it.

“Today I just protested an appraisal with homes that were 1994, 1998, 2008, 2009 brick homes against a 2015 rock/stone/stucco home.” From an appraisal perspective, your explanation and lament is (no disrespect intended) “ridiculous.”

We cannot manufacture data. You are saying that your market recognizes a difference between a 2015 subject vs 2009 comp but NOT a 2015 sale against a 2010 comp? similarly, brick fenestration and ‘stone’ fenestration MAY in extremely small fad markets have a market recognized the difference, but it would be unusual. Why didn’t YOU provide those comparables that impressed the lender so much BEFORE the appraisal? Too busy?

Some property differences are simply not quantifiable. Example. What IS the market difference for a saltillo tile counter and a specifically designed pattern granite (or opal or travertine)? I appreciate some people find the granite to be more desirable but exactly what IS the amount that the adjustment should have been? Would that same adjustment apply if the style of one house was a Mediterranean design? If it’s not clear from market data (in your non-disclosure state) then the appraiser cannot adjust for it. He or she MAY consider it qualitatively overall in their value reconciliation.

As one of the guys at the Appraisers Guild who regularly has to review our Texas member’s complaints from TALCB, I can directly refute your claim that there is no way to get rid of incompetent appraisers. That’s simply untrue. It’s much harder though to get rid of incompetent agents through the good ole boy network at TREC.

As for multi-county appraisers, how many appraisers do you think live in Eagle Pass? The answer is two. One is residential certified and the other is general certified. One is not FHA & VA approved. It means that VA has to send someone all the way from Webb County-not because there are no closer appraisers, but because quite often they refuse to go there.

I don’t know where you work out of (doesn’t really matter either for our discussion), but do YOU turn down all listings outside of your city? Your county? OR is your license valid statewide?

FTaylor, Agents, LOs, Builders and Appraisers have been having these blame game fights for longer than the 50+ years I’ve been involved in the business in one way or another. As a former agent in a firm that rarely ever got appraisals for less than contract, I can honestly state a large part of the reason is that we did our homework BEFORE (CMA), during (updated data), and after a contracted sale (spoon-fed our appraisers) what we believed was appropriate comparables and market data…or what we wanted THEM to believe was best data.

I agree there are some competency issues in TX among some appraisers (as there are in most states). There are also some who refuse to consider the possibility that they could ever be wrong. You, and more importantly, the client and or borrower have recourse at multiple levels.

They are by far a minority of those working there. IF you get a ‘bad’ appraisal then don’t nit-pick like your examples here. Just go find “more relevant” sales comps like you should have done in the first place; explain unemotionally WHY they are better comparables and submit them through the lender or LO.

By the way, for a while, Keller-Williams out of Dallas/Fort Worth was urging agents to automatically file complaints with TALCB anytime they thought an appraisal was low. Several other states with KW brokers did the same thing. It seems to have stopped after we urged appraisers in that area (& any others serviced by KW) to report agents AND the managing brokers listed with the state to TREC every single time an agent originated complaint was filed with TALCB. Maybe some managers finally read Dodd-Frank and its prohibited acts.

I’m glad you posted this here. It gives us both an opportunity for both sides to be heard.

If an appraiser charges enough he can afford geographic competency. That phrase G.C. is only helping the locals to not give away professional, profits.

Any competent appraisers does all necessary requirements to assure competent work.

You are dissembling now for the sake of being argumentative. I’ve said several times LOCAL experts provide the screening or whatever level of oversight is desired. At both the initial smell test screening, and the more detailed probable cause screening before a referral to the feds. By the way, I’ve been to Kansas. You have federal offices there.

We presently have federal law (FIRREA) interpreted by a private corporation in Chicago to develop one size fits-all standards for appraisers that in turn require 50 states and seven territories to pass their own implementing legislation to reinterpret what the private corporation’s standards require. States rights do not include the right to reinterpret federal legislation for their own convenience.

If you have a better idea for resolving the problem, we’d all be glad to hear it. I don’t claim to have all the answers, or the only answers. What I strive for is to identify problems and find SOME possible answers.

Time to loosen the tinfoil hat just a little.

Ok, that’s what I thought you meant, and, we can agree to disagree, but that is a horrible idea and a step backwards for so many reasons.

1) How in the world is someone in Washington DC going to be competent to know WHERE in Kansas to assign this “Kansas” review appraiser? Eudora, Kansas is only 20 minutes from the Kansas City metro area. Their “list” of reviewers will likely have many, many Kansas City appraisers. Problem – Eudora is part of the Lawrence submarket and no one from Kansas City should be working on that review unless they regularly also do work in Lawrence. How will the person in DC (or, rather, group of people with a huge national caseload) possible get that detailed compared to what a person in Topeka, Kansas can do? Trying to defend a report you can’t “prove a negative” and that includes competency situations such as this.

2) What defines “paid for” an appraisal? A borrower that reimbursed a bank for an appraisal fee (and the management fee) suddenly has rights to complain as if they were an intended user? So an “improvement” in the complaint process is to increase the number of people our appraisals are responsible to? I realize there have been some small, localized random court decisions recently regarding borrowers in this manner but the overall national consensus has always been that borrowers for a lending appraisal are not intended users nor do appraisers have a responsibility to them. The report was not written for their level of understanding. Do you want to give every borrower that doesn’t understand that I didn’t miscount his number of bedrooms because two of them are below grade free reign to now complain? Sure, your new system might “weed it out” as a non-valid complaint, EVENTUALLY- but how long does that take? Just being IN a complaint process is an issue for appraisers with their clients, E&O renewals, etc. Not to mention how much this concept will increase our E&O rates.

3) I realize the whole idea of “states rights” is a less-important concept in a big state like California, however here in the smaller states we’re not exactly keen to give up control of yet another part of our lives (in this case, my livelihood) to some national entity in Washington that is not directly accountable to me locally.This allows people in larger states to have the people they want making decisions and deciding what, in Kansas, constitutes a violation of law. What recourse does any appraiser in Kansas have to the procedures and opinions decided by this national entity? Will hearings, court challenges, etc. be conducted at the local level, or now will appraisers have to travel to challenge this since the controlling entity is no longer in our state? Yes, USPAP is “national” but my state legislature has to vote to adopt each new version to make it part of Kansas law and the governor appoints a board that can set procedures, additional requirements, etc. for OUR state as people in this state see fit.

Again, yes, some states have horrible IMPLEMENTATION of their enforcement activities and that surely needs to be corrected, but I’m not sure a series of bad government actions in some states means we need even more and more consolidated government action. The answer to bad government isn’t more excessive bad government.

Did you get my message? I called them and no one would speak to me, even the director. They transferred me to their legal department, I left a message. If they do not call back I am going to assume that they are one in the same persons.

MY CONCERN IS THAT THEY PUT IN $30,000 TO $40,000 A YEAR IN OVERTIME AND HE STILL HAS TIME TO GO TO Kansas. ALSO, THERE IS THE ISSUE OF GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION QUALIFICATION AND KEEPING THEN ON THEIR TOES. THEY WILL BE MORE VULNERABLE TO MAKING MISTAKES AND HOPEFULLY GETTING BUSTED. GOOD OLD FASHIONED TACTIC, COLOMBO STYLE. IT CALLED KEEPING THE PRESSURE ON.

DOES NOT PASS THE SMELL TEST. LOOK I DO NOT MIND COMMUNICATING WITH YOU AND THE OTHERS, BUT IF YOU FAIL TO GET IT, THAT’S ON YOU. DON’T WASTE MY TIME RESPONDING TO THESE RIDICULOUS COMMENTS. I PERSONALLY FEEL YOU AND YOUR CREW CAN’T BUST A GRAPE.

NOTHING I DO IS FOOLISH, FOOL.

I have no interest one way or the other. The question arose because a post on your site was unclear. While I have no love for BREA, I have enough other real issues on my plate that I don’t need to go out of my way to try to antagonize them. I don’t mind doing so if it is relevant to a point or conversation, but to just throw barbs their way for the sake of throwing barbs would be foolish.

1. Not the client or at least the party that paid for the report? No right to complain. Period.(exception would be complainant paid appraiser and work was never done at all). Specific complaint not supported? Dismissed. Volunteers.

2. Probable/ reasonably probable cause- referred to formal field review by local appraiser (C&R review fee paid by Feds).

3. Violation (significant with substantive impact on conclusion) of USPAP alleged after review-goes to ASC for a disciplinary hearing/proposal. If disputed it could be handled in Feds equivalent of Administrative law court in LOCAL state’s federal offices.

Mike,

Maybe I’m too dense to understand you, but your post, again, seems to only indicate a NATIONAL entity – ASC, etc. as the decision makers on who to assign a complaint to for review. It’s one thing to have the REVIEWER be local – but it’s another to have the person deciding if it needs to be reviewed in the first place be local. Someone sitting in an office for the ASC in Washington isn’t going to have a clue as to the validity of a complaint in Eudora, Kansas. That solution would be a step backwards.

The only other groups you mention are a series of private appraisal organizations (AI, ASA, state coalitions) which I can’t see how we’d convince anyone at any level of government to “empower” with the enforcement of law when we’re at the same time telling them another private corporation (TAF) isn’t doing its job correctly. And which organizations get this power? What’s the bar to be a valid “appraisal organization”?

I can’t seem to figure out who – other than a “network of volunteers” or various private, national appraisal organizations, you want charged with enforcing the law and deciding which complaints get investigated.  If I can’t understand your proposal, how do you expect a Congressman or state legislator with even less appraisal knowledge to understand the benefits of this idea? Again, I’m all for change if it is beneficial, but I see nothing coherent here that has a chance of becoming reality. In the meantime, thresholds are being raised and we are being replaced anyway, so there won’t be any appraisers to file complaints against in short order.

MIKE I PLACED A CALL TO OREA/BREA, THEY TRANSFERRED ME TO THEIR LEGAL DEPARTMENT. I LEFT A MESSAGE, HOPEFULLY, THEY WILL RESPOND.

IF I DO NOT HEAR FROM THEM I WILL HAVE TO CONTINUE TO ASSUME THAT THEY ARE ONE IN THE SAME PERSON.

https://activerain.com/blogsview/5302869/commercial-appraiser–mai–ai–appraisal-institute—sr–investigator-john-schmidt-of-ca-brea-orea-commits-perjury

I ASSUME IT IS, YOU CAN CALL HIM TO MAKE A POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION.

Mike Ford, AGA, GAA, RAA, SCGREA, Realtor®: “Commercial appraiser-I have no idea whether the California BREA investigator J. S. is the same one being referred to by you or your partially cited articles.
I suspect not, since JS in California doesn’t know the difference between USPAP and Fannie Mae Guidelines based on his actual court testimony. Hard to believe anyone would voluntarily stipulate to his being an expert at anything.”

Sorry for the truncated post.

‘Brevity is the soul of wit’

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/74850.html

I think it can be the soul of good business communications, we all are on limited time he.

I am talking about all those idiots at orea/brea, clean house every 4 years, except maybe the clerical staff.

As you well know there is more to running a real estate appraisal office than USPAP. USPAP also addresses local standards which change quite frequently. They should be better thought of as Fossils ver Dinosaurs.

Some of these fools have never had an appraisal practice, authored an appraisal, or even completed an appraisal in 20 years.

P.S.

Did not understand the expert and court business stuff. Except that they do not have a legal background and have never been designated as an expert outside the orea/brea. In fact, I do not think their representation of Orea/Brea qualifies them as experts.

What about a four-year term limit for those fools in Sacramento.

Commercial appraiser – I have no idea whether the California BREA investigator J. S. is the same one being referred to by you or your partially cited articles.

I suspect not, since JS in California doesn’t know the difference between USPAP and Fannie Mae Guidelines based on his actual court testimony. Hard to believe anyone would voluntarily stipulate to his being an expert at anything.

Michael my post above yours is pretty clear in answering your 1-3 items above. There is no reason that review would not be local peer-based. I’d contend and agree that is a critical element.

The same post offers one potential solution. Fleshing it out is a mix of legislative and peer items if the idea ever got traction.

Cryptic remark had to do with an absence of paragraphs…or at least the very long, difficult to read opening one.

I’m not sure what that cryptic response means, but let me boil it down – let’s forget about all the in between issues of which type of person should be doing the reviews exactly who should be writing USPAP, who has screwed up whatever in the past and how much corruption you believe is involved with the current enforcement structure – etc. etc. – but whatever system is in place – my questions is

1) WHERE does a compliant that is filed go
2) WHO gets to decide if it is a valid complaint worthy of further investigation? and
3) once investigated, who is the party that ultimately takes actions or decides on no action on that complaint?

If the answer to all three questions is not a group of people in my own state, how is does that improve the complaint process in my location?

I hear a lot of complaints (no pun intended) but not a lot of solutions.

My eyes hurt

That’s an interesting idea, but in the case of my state would be a step backwards for one very important reason – GEOGRAPHIC competency. My state does have all its board complaint reviews done by a third-party appraiser (an actual, working appraiser – any appraiser in the state can apply to the board to do this on a contract basis). My fear with a “national” system is ensuring a complaint is handled on a hyper-local basis. By this I mean it’s not even enough to have an appraiser in the same STATE review to the complaint (someone from Hays, Kansas doesn’t know jack about Wichita or Kansas City – it’s a 5-6 hour drive or more between them), but someone with actual geographic competency in that market. I work in an area at the edge of the state with a major metro area (Kansas City) but you can go a mere 30 minutes in any direction and not be competent in all the submarkets and rural areas surrounding the city if you have not worked them regularly. How is someone from a “national” organization or system going to be competent to even know when and how they need to assign someone with that type of competency? It’s a “they don’t know what they don’t know” situation. A procedure or methodology that might seem atypical or unreasonable in California or New York might be perfectly reasonable in a county with less than 25 residential sales in the entire county in a given year. Right now, as a resident of my state I vote on a governor that appoints 6 members of a state board (half or more of whom are licensed appraisers) that then determine who to send out on complaints. They are not perfect – far from. I am no fan of my all actions of my state board and they could certainly use some help and more funding. But I can’t see how – for my state – it would be an improvement to take this away to some out-of-state national entity and trust that if someone disagrees with my value and tries to throw me under the bus, that I’m going to get a review done by a competent, LOCAL appraiser. Then of course there’s the issue no one likes to talk about – but in every jurisdiction there are people that just don’t like each other. They’ve had past run ins – business disputes, opposite sides of lawsuits as experts, etc. In a perfect world people with bias shouldn’t be doing board reviews on people they are biased about, but, they do because this isn’t a perfect world. I see that issue only getting worse when the structure is taken away from people in the same state with local knowledge of the people involved. Someone in Florida who doesn’t even know the NAMES involved in Kansas certainly isn’t going to know the history.

I’m sorry that other states, including California, are having such issues, but that is for appraisers in THOSE states to solve. Elect people to your state legislature who will solve the problem, change your local state board structure. Or, they can run for state legislature. It’s not actually that hard to do. But again, I can’t see how consolidating this power into a different national entity than the national entity we have now is going to make anything better but just change the names on the front cover of USPAP. I’m all for change, but let’s be sure we’re not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.