Y A W N ?

Mr. Ford, prior to last week I would have agreed with your comments about the ASA and one of the reasons I went to San Antonio was to learn more about them. I have worked with several ASA appraisers in my career that would be consistent with your assessment. But the “performance” on stage of their two representatives in San Antonio was ridiculous and unprofessional. I can only guess that they feel, since the NAIFA merger that the only way to get ahead as an organization is to bash the AI to appeal to a certain segment of the appraisal industry. What a shame.

ASA unprofessional? Now that is something I have never seen or heard associated with them. In fact, in most professional appraisal circles the ASA designation carries at least as much weight and respect as the MAI does. In fact, it’s why so many MAI’s ALSO carry the ASA designation.

Mr. Elliot, please be respectful of the opinions of others and do not attack someone for having an opinion that differs from your own; if you disagree with someone, please express yourself respectfully. Snide or rude comments are not constructive and certainly not helpful. We count on your cooperation and appreciate your support!

You see Mr. Miller, this is why everything you say is BS. Please quote the above post where it says the words “hate” and “New Yorkers” in the same sentence. I said YOU, sir, are a loudmouth New Yorker. I love New York. It’s a great city. Unfortunately in a city that size you get tolerance of a great number of self-important loudmouths like yourself who like to twist words, twist truth and are so accustomed to their own BS they don’t even recognize it when it comes out of their mouth. Nice try on proving midwest relevance. It’s like when white racists say “but it’s ok if I say that because I have friends who are black…”. So Mr. Miller says “all my friends from the midwest think I’m fine…” You have a nice life hating the AI because you were unable to get your MAI. Me, on the other hand, I will continue to increase my skills and knowledge from reputable sources, NOT fly to assignments in a G5 and steer clear of the lunatic fringe of the appraisal world. As the flight attendants on regular air travel say – “Bu-bye!”

I’m sorry you hate New Yorkers! As far as being a loudmouth, I admit  I do talk a lot but I’m not loud! You’re one of the best trolls I’ve ever met in person so you officially have the win in this thread! kudos! It’s also great content for my newsletter! All my family in Ohio and Michigan and my college friends in flyover country and people I know from the years I lived in a Chicago would expect nothing less! And my friends in KC are amazingly polite! Actually they live in Olathe on the Kansas side!

Great stat Bill.  What is the membership number for the AGA or the real property portion of the ASA? Does that mean that more than half of the appraisers in the country have said no to those organizations? Here’s the thing, I have a successful business and my designation is respected by those I do work for. It has no bearing on what cutesy little acronyms you can come up with. Thankfully I did not join my organization to be part of some political movement. I considered joining the ASA as well to increase my knowledge of another discipline of appraisal practice, however the extraordinarily unprofessional manner that their representatives displayed at the conference last week has led me to rethink that decision. Have a wonderful and irrelevant life. I have some work to do now that doesn’t involve Internet forums.

Here’s what I know Michael, 3 out of 4 appraisers say NO to joining the Appraisal Institute. I would hope with the letters behind your name (SRA / Someone Really Arrogant), that even you could figure out most don’t support your organization. Are you guys still supporting HVCC, or are you waiting to see how it all works out?

Seek the truth.

I don’t have to “disagree” and “think” that I am right when you are factually, provable wrong. Let’s take a sample:

“Mike when you advance your limited experience 20-year career knowledge to a point when you can pass a general certification exam, be sure to let me know.”

Well, EXPERT – a simple check of my state or the ASC would show that I am, in fact, General Certified in Kansas and Missouri. So guess what, WRONG. Mr. Ford.

Letters after a name? For all other appraiser professionals, those are DESIGNATIONS, not STATE LICENSES OR CERTIFICATIONS. A state license or certification is not a professional designation.

Again – Mr. Ford – “By contrast, one could read your letters and not tell what level your official state credentials are”  Easy – because the designation after my name isn’t my state certification level. But guess what Mr. Ford, on every appraisal document in Kansas that I sign – I must put MY STATE LICENSE NUMBER – which starts with “G” – for “General”. Residential Certification starts with R and Licensed with “L”.  Again, WRONG, FALSE.

Your quote about highest and best use above is also WRONG and FALSE. I never said any such thing. I indicated USPAP does not specifically quote a requirement for ALL THREE HBUs- as vacant, as improved and “ideal improvement”. If you can quote otherwise, please point me to the page and line number in USPAP Standards Rule 2 that requires reporting of the IDEAL IMPROVEMENT for such an assignment. You can’t. So, again, the reason, I disagree with you, IS THAT YOU ARE WRONG as well as intentionally misquoting me.

How exactly would you know what is required for an SRA or an AI-RRS? Have you ever had to demonstrate your knowledge to anyone except the State of California? Of course not.

So, go ahead, respond to this. Each time you do you just prove how clueless you are again and again. You prove that you don’t really want to work with the AI – you deep down despise them and all associated with them which is why, although I didn’t really care before I attended that sham political rally known as “Appraiser Fest” I will oppose you and your organization at every turn. I will certainly never claim to the be the world’s smartest appraiser. I was trained, thankfully, by many smart people. There are many appraisers in this world that know much more than me – you sir, are not one of them however, of that I am very certain.

Pretend? Mislead? Apparently, you are unaware that California specifically authorizes the use of SCREA or SCGREA. My license actually says “State of California General Certified Real Estate Appraiser.”

Count the letters Mike. 5 or 6 versus ‘State Certified General Real Estate Appraiser.’ SCREA or SCGREA isn’t for the public’s benefit so much as other appraisers, OR lenders that like to see soup after a name. Is he residential certified or general certified? Misleading? Quite the contrary. It’s pretty specific about what I am and what I am not. No pretense.

By contrast, one could read your letters and not tell what level your official state credentials are. Who is misleading?

Years ago SRA meant an expert in residential appraisal. It was enough. Most of us knew that included the ability to review residential appraisal work. A skill most of us also learned our second or third year in the business.

Truth is AI needed the money and (some) insecure SRA’s thought they needed more alphabet. What’s next? How about AI-RMS (residential measuring specialist)? Or perhaps AI-RPS (photography specialist). Maybe an AI designation for being a keyboard specialist? Mike, some things are simply expected in a residential appraiser expert’s repertoire of skills. Even without letters.

In “demosntrating integrity and knowledge for your AI-RRS did you also cite your published view of believing highest and best use for an sfr in a subdivision* isn’t required?” Knowledge? Give me a break Mike. An expert would know exactly why highest and best use is required for sfr’s in subdivisions.

A review of your articles/ comments shows recurring reliance on disparaging commentary for anyone you disagree with. Whether its TAF; other appraisers, Appraiserfest, Johnathon Miller,  myself, other organizations, USPAP standards you don’t agree with, etc. It’s always the other guy that is wrong. Everyone except Mike Elliott.

Mike when you advance your limited experience 20-year career knowledge to a point when you can pass a general certification exam, be sure to let me know. I may take you more seriously. When you obtain your MAI (or just pass a general cert license level), then maybe your critiques of Tim Andersen and others with similar experience will be more credible.

(*WorkingRE OREP comments by Mr. Elliott in response to Tim Andersen MAI comments)

By the way Mike, anyone with even minimal knowledge of the Marine Corps would know ‘junkyard dog’ is as much a compliment as teufelhund. It’s hardly the insult you intended. It’s possibly the highest compliment you could offer to me. Thank you.

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/news/marine-corps-bulldog-chesty/

Mr. Ford, if RAA and GAA are so “worthy”, why do you feel the need to mislead the public and pretend the abbreviation for “state certified general real estate appraiser” is some type of “professional designation”? Because it make the list of your designations appear longer? Unlike that, I actually had to demonstrate knowledge, INTEGRITY, education and proper review reports for my AI-RRS. I get review clients due to it. Working on a report now thanks to it. In 30 years I’ve never once had anyone ask me “do you have the appraiser designation from NAR?”  Someone designated by an organization (NAR) that spends a great deal of time trying to put us out of business- now that’s funny.

I wish you well with the AGA designation. Perhaps in time we can come up with clever, derisive acronyms for the AGA they way you do with the MAI (“A Grumbling Appraiser?” perhaps?  “Appraiser Gets Aggravated”?  “Anybody Gets Approved”?).  In the meantime, I’m happy and proud (or “elitist” in your book) to have my AI designations that I had to spend YEARS working hard for and thus were a meaningful accomplishment.

Mike, I let my peers decide what I am. Nuisance or a benefit to the profession, it is purely up to them. Period.

Perhaps you should contact NAR and tell them that you have thought it over and decided to declare their appraisal (GAA & RAA) & membership (Realtor) designations meaningless. Not unlike the AI-RRS. Many disagree with you.

As for the Member, AGA designation we have a different metric. Our designation is based primarily on a requirement for integrity. We believe that the AQB criteria established by TAF at the direction of Congress are sufficient tests of technical and professional skill sets. Otherwise, there are serious deficiencies in that testing process nationally. We recognize the half day and full day tests that each licensee or certified appraiser passes as valid representations of the appraiser’s skills.

We are more concerned about integrity. I doubt there is an experienced General Certified appraiser in the country with over 15 or 20 years experience that has not had the dubious pleasure of reviewing or reading at least one  ‘Made As Instructed’ report, where authors relied on formerly highly regarded credentials and pretty report formatting in lieu of USPAP compliance and fundamental honesty. The brand is tarnished.

AGA is a new designation. It’s acceptance in the profession will become what we make of it. We won’t trade our integrity or our members goals to prop it up falsely. We’ll take highly trained, honest licensed and certified appraisers that continue to learn, over those that ‘claim to know it all by virtue of AI designations’ any day. Unlike AI, IF one of our members knowingly demonstrates a lack of integrity, we will remove them from membership. We defend against false claims or legitimate errors – not dishonesty.

See, that last statement, which you also made last week, is what makes you uninformed. They “haven’t gotten USPAP right in 25 years”.  Yes, there are annoying, legalistic changes to USPAP from year to year. I agree.  But to pretend a document crafted 30 years ago would just be completely unchanged when it governs an every-changing industry is just silly.  What were the nature of AVMs, electronic signatures and on and on in the late 80’s? or the 90’s? Technology, processes, needs of clients and for that matter the properties themselves (i.e. green technology) have changed over 30 years. Yes, the “we inserted the word ‘as’ in Standards Rule 4” changes are annoying but making blanket statements suggesting we can achieve a “right” and “unchangeable” version of USPAP is absurd.

And “G5 Johathan” who, just a week ago was bragging about how he wasted his client’s money with ridiculous retainers and flying you all over the country, wants to nitpick the travel arrangements of an organization he DOESN’T BELONG TO OR PAY DUES TO. I don’t know what they call that at the cocktail parties you bragged about last week, but here in flyover country, we tend to call that “talking out of your ass”. I’m sure it’s impressive to your loudmouth New York friends, but not so much to the rest of us.

How exactly would you know what “transparency” is in an organization you don’t belong to? Why don’t you stick to railing about things you actually know about, because for those of us in the organization, you just look ridiculous talking about this.

But the bigger question – WHY DO YOU CARE? I mean, I don’t belong to the AGA (I almost did, until I dug deeper). I could write paragraphs about what a horrific, unprofessional organization they are. A website designed by a 12 year old, affiliated with a socialist labor movement that is antithetical to everything I believe in, etc. etc. But I don’t spend my days worrying trying to “investigate” the AGA. I don’t care – they are just someone else’s nonsense. I suppose I could go on a one-man campaign and talk about the inner workings of unions I know nothing about and maybe I can be as popular and relevant as Mr. Miller (because, after all, that’s what it boils down to, right Johnathan? “relevance”)

So, let’s recap – loudmouth New Yorker who thinks he has it all figured out knows more about the inner workings and value or an organization to residential appraisers than an ACTUAL long-time member of said organization who holds both residential designations. Perhaps we should use USPAP’s definition of “credible” – that is “worthy of belief” – which your comments are not.

Mike it was AI that claimed, in public before TAF meetings in Redondo Beach, CA and Phoenix, AZ that THEY spoke for all appraisers. Further, they made the blatantly false claim that they put the interests of all other appraisers before their own interests.

For that, the junkyard dog called them on their egregious lie in public, before the TAF – twice. By the time the Torrance, CA TAF meeting rolled around, their reps were no longer spouting that lie. WE reached out to Garber to see how sincere AI was about working with other organizations. He offered to meet, though our perception was that some additional groundwork needed to be undertaken before that takes place. The fact remains that we have serious opposition to some (not all) AI policies.

Why not call the split AI and TAF had what it is instead of a “hissy fit”? AI VIOLATED the tenants and code of ethics of TAF. Pure and simple. The seeds of their disputes were legitimate issues. Perhaps they could have been resolved. Then again, it appears to outsiders that the AI attitude and willingness to resolve issues took the same tone your own comments take. Confrontational and insulting, rather than cooperatively and honestly seeking to resolve differences.

There probably was a “hissy fit,” but I don’t think it was on TAFs part. By the way, I’m no fan of TAF either. Then again, I have not signed an agreement not to disparage them as part of any sponsorship with them. I personally think they need to be dissolved or at least lose their special status with ASC. Not because they compete with AI educational offerings, but because after 25+ years they still haven’t gotten USPAP right, OR preserved the Public Trust.

We don’t mind being a junkyard dog, Mike. It’s long past time for someone to stand up and ‘bark’ for appraisers. AI certainly isn’t doing it. Uninformed? I let my peers make that call.

Mike, we respectfully disagree. BOTH ASA and AGA have already made changes. ASA and AGA stopped AB624 dead in its tracks (2015).

This year AGA was able to get OCC to convince BofA and their AMC Corelogic to reconsider (change) their policy on encountering pot growing operations at appraisals, to conform with USPAP and federal law. We have assisted over 103 members in; reinstatements or removal from blacklists, recovering back fees owed and in defending themselves against false claims against them with their boards in the past year alone.

The combined efforts of State coalitions, trade organizations such as ASA that care about their members, and the American Guild of Appraisers can precipitate change. We may not succeed in all the areas we try, but the fact is we TRY. We will have some successes and some shortcomings. That’s inevitable.

There is one thing that is absolutely certain. If no one tries, then nothing will get done. For much less than the $40 per month of your dues that go to lobbying (for and AGAINST appraisers); our members can get personal, direct assistance on any appraisal issue they face, with a simple phone call and a few emails.

If you believe AI is all you need, and that they are properly representing all appraisers then congratulations. Seriously. That AI feels threatened by the proliferation of coalitions, and ASA and AGA suggest that not all your fellow Institute Members agree with you.

Mike, Coalitions, ASA and AGA all have AI members in our ranks. We don’t pretend to be a replacement for AI at all. We are a supplement to it. At other times we are an alternative to it.

The advocacy on the website is mostly generic gobblygook. It literally is busy work. Instead, follow the work of Scott Dibiasio in his dogged pursuit to devalue the meaning of an appraisal by advocating evaluations, yet can’t provide a reason why. It’s madness and infers a healthy dose of self-serving behavior by leadership.

It is a trade organization – good grief. Its mission was supposed to be to enhance professionalism and opportunities for its members just like others in related industries such as NAR and MBA and ABA. The fact is that the organization forgot about residential appraisers and its leadership culture has become toxic over the past decade. I’m not against the organization conceptually at all, but I am against the self-interest of its elitist leadership.  Membership is declining yet the number of national credentials is not. The lack of transparency has allowed leadership to do many things without accountability. Those that push back against AI National are only seeking to neutralize the damage they cause to their residential membership, not put them out of business. Over the last few years, the proliferation of state coalitions and more outward criticism is evidence of AI National’s lack of meaningful action. I hope they change their ways, but with a CEO and former 2x president pulling in $400K along with executives flying first class all over the world, I fear its a lost cause.

First, you can find out what “things” they are lobbying for by going to the AI’s website under “Advocacy” – it’s not a big secret.

Yes, I was “polled” by the “ivory Tower” as you put it – each year I get the opportunity to vote on local/regional representatives that in turn vote on national leaders that take action. That’s how representative democracy versus “direct democracy” works. I also have the opportunity via e-mail and letter to make my views knows to national leadership. Now, do you think the organization would be more effective if they waited for a “member poll” before they took a position on every legislative issue? I’d love to hear that argument.

As for SB 2155, this may be news to you, but as appraisers we have to work WITHIN a system. We are a tiny, tiny niche special interest group that will NEVER EVER get Congress’ full attention. Sorry, welcome to reality. That said, from my reading the AI took neither a “for” or “against” position on the bill, but a “we’d like better, but it’s not as bad as it could be” approach. Bill Garber quoted in media about it:

“And what is the Appraisal Institute’s position on the exemption?

“It is not something that we support obviously. We don’t support turning away from appraisals. We have tried to make sort of a bad situation better, and I think we have done that. I would say at the outset, at least it involves appraisal. It is not an outright exemption. You had people who were calling for an outright rural-appraisal exemption at $400,000. I am calling it an allowance.” End quote.

So, if you have another organization that thinks it can pursue this more aggressively and you feel passionately about it – then leave the AI (if you are a member, which doesn’t sound like you are since you seem uninformed about how it operates) and join another of the other ones that are so much more effective than the AI at changing legislation. Oh, wait, is there one? Yeah, exactly.

As for “member dues” – realize that most of their political activities are funded via the PAC which is a separate,voluntary contribution. The portion of my dues related to lobbying is around $40/year. I’ve probably wasted more than that just taking the time to respond to you so it’s not exactly keeping me up at night.

And yes, to be clear, I am speaking for myself. I have no current or prospective leadership role or inside knowledge of the organization other than what any other member has.

Am I “happy” with the AI? Couldn’t really care what they do on lobbying. I’m glad they try – but neither they, the ASA, the AGA or other tiny, niche appraisal organizations are going to meaningfully change the situation. I’d rather spend my time increasing my value to clients and finding new clients than crying about how we’re all getting “screwed by the government”. At least I’m clear “CertResidential” what my real name is and what organization I belong or don’t belong to.